Dating etiquette question.

heidi

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 1:06 am

amother wrote:

Sometimes you go on a date and it's clearly not for you. The right thing to do is to get to know the other person, and see if s/he is right for any of your friends.

Not every date has to lead to marriage. Some can lead to self discovery or to a refinement of your character.

My friend dated a boy for about a month. He went to movies and she didn't like that, but unlike the nasty dater here, she gave him a chance bcz. he had other great qualities. They eventually broke up over the movie issue.
5 years later they got married.
Some things are more important than movies.
They've been happily married for over 20 years.

amother

Violet

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 1:16 am

I agree that he was out of line for what he did. He shouldn't have ended it so soon. However, I do not necessarily think he was nasty. Men in general are more blunt than women, and very possibly he saw it bluntly that this is not a match and decided to end it there, without realizing that she would be hurt.
The past has happened. For the future, he should be made aware that women do not perceive things the same way as men do, and therefore he can't be as abrupt as that.

WhatFor

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 1:48 am

OP is specifically asking for opinions on etiquette. What's the point of being dlkz here? Are you trying to tell OP that there are cases when this behavior is acceptable?

Based on the responses here it undoubtedly can be humiliating for a girl to be brought home twenty minutes into a date. Whether it was humiliating for the girl in question, no one here can know, but it obviously can be for many women.

Seriously who does that? Can you imagine being a young woman who is returned to your house twenty minutes after you're picked up? Being in the shidduch world can be difficult enough without having to try to gather your composure and explain to other individuals who witness your quick return why another human couldn't tolerate your presence for even one hour.

I've been on dates where I knew I was unattracted to the guy pretty much from the second they opened their mouth. Sometimes because they were different from what was written on paper. So what? I'm going to be like, well, this is a definite no, so let me do you a favor and save us both some time?? Every human being deserves respect.

To those justifying this by saying well the girl agreed: did she really have another choice? Should she humiliate herself further and beg for additional time? Plus, I agree that she hopefully just counted her blessings. To those thinking it's nbd because the issue wasn't about her personally, yes it was. It became a personal issue when she showed up to the date. The time to reject people for things on paper is before you meet. Sorry someone messed up in this case but that doesn't pattur you from being a mensch once you meet the actual individual.

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 1:52 am

amother wrote:

.
No, no, no. This comes off as saying women are silly creatures who need to be handled with kid gloves. Bad message to give to a guy who's already clueless.

amother

Azure

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 2:46 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Your nephew behaved despicably. Maybe he should watch some movies about manners. Humiliating someone is a much worse sin then watching a movie.

I disagree that he humiliated her. He said POLITELY that he didn't want to date someone who goes to movies and since the girl seemed to agree, it is highly likely that she doesn't want to marry someone who DOESN'T go to movies. It is quite a big hashkafic difference. Yes, perhaps this is should have been checked first but it wasn't and I think it was handled just right.

mom2six

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 6:26 am

zaq wrote:

You're mistaken about a few things:

1. Shidduch dating is a process of weeding out those who don't have what you want, not finding those who do.

2. Why does having gone to movies mean the whole thing is possul and not going to go anywhere? Ultimately marriage is about personalities. Where personalities mesh, everything else can be negotiated. But where personalities clash, and especially where one or the other isn't a mensch, that's where there's no point trying to move forward.

So yes, ultimately the young man did do the young lady a favor, not because she has no business going out with someone who objects to young ladies who go to movies, but because he's a sanctimonious boor and she doesn't need that.

If he had been a mensch she might have decided that he's worth giving up movies for.

I do think that movie going can be a breaker for someone who it's important to. I don't think it's okay to end a date after 20 minutes for that (or any) reason though.

treestump

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 7:17 am

amother wrote:

If I tell someone POLITELY something really rude, does that make it decent?

I strongly believe that everyone should marry someone they're compatible with. And that includes hashkafa. If he is very stringent on no movies, then he shouldn't marry someone who goes to movies.

But we're talking about basic mentchlichkeit here. Basic, elementary human decency. I'm shocked at how many posts are defending his behavior. It is inexcusable and should be unacceptable.

Of course the poor girl agreed. What else could she have done besides for try to scrape together some dignity after a guy treated her so rudely?

OP, I don't think your nephew is quite ready to marry someone yet. It sounds like he still has a lot of maturing to do in order to be a good husband.

Last edited by treestump on Fri, Jul 28 2017, 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total

CatLady

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 7:18 am

Everyone has the right to dealbreakers. One of mine is rudeness. If this guy has a gratitude journal, tonight's entry should be devoted to how happy he is that he's not my son, because he'd be receiving a serious attitude adjustment from me. The girl really dodged a bullet in this one.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 8:00 am

amother wrote:

I'm going to POLITELY say that if you think he handled this just right, you are a socially dysfunctional person and should get some serious help. I mean this to help you. How are your relationships in general? Do you find that you have hard time making friends and keeping them?

Iymnok

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 8:08 am

amother wrote:

My nephew told me an incident that happened to him a few weeks ago. I think he was waaaaay out of line. He was on a first date and was driving to their destination. Around 10 minutes into the ride it came out that the girl goes to movies. My nephew adamantly wouldn't think of going to movies. Nevermind how this wasn't checked into properly. At this point my nephew politely tells the girl that he's sorry this somehow didn't come out before hand, but he doesn't date girls who go to movies. He then took her back home. Start to finish was 20 minutes. He said the girl seemed to be in agreement that a date would be a waste of both their times if he feels that way. I feel my nephew should have continued the date and cut it a little short. Opinions?

What do you get out of this besides lots of gossip on your nephew's derech eretz?
He did it. It's over.
Did he ask your advice or opinion?

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 8:12 am

Iymnok wrote:

What do you get out of this besides lots of gossip on your nephew's derech eretz?
He did it. It's over.
Did he ask your advice or opinion?

She is asking our opinion. She specifically said "what is your opinion on what my nephew did? Is it proper dating etiquette?"

amother

Cerise

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 8:18 am

amother wrote:

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a source for this?

I think you are missing something here-
the op is asking for advice and if this is right or wrong---- not lets put this situation in a good light and give him benefit of the doubt
and she obviously knows something is wrong otherwise she wont be posting\

it seems she cant put her finger on whats wrong and wants to know if her feelings are correct or not!!

Chayalle

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 9:34 am

amother wrote:

He humiliated her. He should've stuck the date out for the requisite 2 hours, and then told the shadchan he's not interested in continuing.

amother

Blue

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 9:57 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

What kind of nasty post was that? Did the poster deserve that?!

Last edited by amother on Fri, Jul 05 2019, 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 10:11 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Correct. There is absolutely no obligation to be dan lkaf zechus a random, unknown person on the internet. For all we know the person doesn't exist. Op could have made the whole thing up. We were asked to give an opinion on a specific scenario. Not to be dan lkaf Zchus.

Not sure why dan lkaf Zchus even comes into this.

Young lady came into her house in tears, and said "Ma - I'm so humiliated, the guy was a jerk - I told him I watch movies and he just turned around the car and drove me home" It so embarrassing to be returned home from a date 20 minutes after it started.

Ma calls the guys Aunt, tells her what happened, and she reports back: - oh he thought he did the right thing.. (which is a FACT we were provided with)..

So Ma says to her daughter... look you never need to speak to him again, but the truth of the matter is, he thought he did the right thing. He had no ill intent. He just lacks in Shidduch dating etiquette (and perhaps social skills in general).

Dan Lkaf Zchus is for when we need to fill in the details of what is going on in the person's head when they do something that is offensive... to give them the benefit of the doubt. there is no doubt here - we have someone who didn't read his copy of the 'shidduch dating handbook'.