What would you do??

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers

What would you do??

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willow

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 6:01 am

I take a parenting class with Rebbetzin here in Israel and she is very popular. She has this one "shita" that one does not get involved with other kids, even if it concerns your kid. For example: in the park if kids won't let your child on the merry go round she says your child has to learn to deal without mommy always taking care of things.
Cut to Shabbos: We have neighbors that have multiple children. I know the parents are going through a hard time so the kids are reasonably noisy and nervy. They have hit, shoved my 3 1/2 year old a few times and I just empathized and kissed my child and ignored the other children. Friday night my dd was playing with them and in front of my husband the 8-9 year old girl gave my daughter a light slap on her cheek. My dh didn't say anything but then she reared back and with all the strength of a girl her size (about 2 1/2 times my dd) she kicked her with her shoes in the stomach. My dd burst into tears that were from pain and not just the cry of injustice being done. My dh lost it and really gave it to the kid. He marched her to the father and laid down the story. Nothing really happened after that but my dh really gave it to the girl. Then he came in the house with her and asked me what should we do??
What would you do? I don't want this girl or anyone to be violent to my dd. I also know that both my dh and myself are a bit like Momma and Papa bear about our dd. So we try to stay back and give kids their space. But we both think this is over the limit.
Because:

A) she is much bigger and stronger
B) she is used to fighting because she has a lot of siblings
C) my dd is an only child and doesn't really know from these things.
I don't think she could stand up for herself.

Seraph

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 6:26 am

I think if its a kid on whom your child is on equal turfs with them, stay out unless it gets really dangerous. But when a bigger, older child is bullying your helpless smaller younger child, there is no reason to stay out, imo, and its only counterproductive and shows your child that you don't care about them.

BeershevaBubby

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 6:32 am

A child is bullied because the bully feels safe in bullying them because they figure the kid will never retaliate. The second your daughter smacks this bully a good one will be the last time she'll need to stand up to this girl.

Tamiri

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 6:32 am

I think there is a biiiiiiig difference between teaching a child to manage among her peers and allowing her to be attacked by an older child. You needed to step in here. I am not sure I agree with the rebbetzin of never mixing in, generally speaking, but that's up to you. There is a lot of violence out there - doncha thing that parental involvement could minimize it a bit?

willow

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 6:40 am

K so my dh did give it to the child, BUT he has talked of almost obsessively about what he would do if she did something like that again. Whats a reasonable course of action?

Tamiri

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 7:40 am

To warn the child that she is NEVER to hurt your DD again, and that you will be watching closely.

MamaBear

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 8:19 am

Your 3 1/2 yr old is still very very young. She does not need to learn to fend for herself in such a situation. That's ridiculous. Learning to share a toy without mommy stepping in is one thing, defending herself physically from an older child is totally different. Ask your Rebbetzin for her opinion. I suspect she would agree with the posters.

Mirabelle

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 8:59 am

I think your DH's reaction was very normal.

I know if I saw a big kid hurt my 3 year old I would make just as big of a deal.

ShakleeMom

Sun, Sep 27 2009, 10:07 am

that poor child, this is the only control they have in their lives: control over weaker people. It's very sad that bullying is the first thing that comes to mind. In my opinion, stay out of it and teach your children to keep a distance. We have bullied in our neighborhood and I had to teach my kids that we cannot stand up to them and I cannot do anything if they get hurt so by all means, I ORDER them to stay away.

levial

Wed, Sep 30 2009, 9:46 am

Older child - I'd definitely step in. It's not a "fair" fight. I'd also give your child a sense of what you would want her to do if you weren't there. (aside from recovering from the blow to the stomach and crying from pain and hurt). Some people teach their kids to defend themselves, others with words, others with walking away, but I might reinforce whatever you want her to know.

Something similar happened here in EY with DD. 6 year old boy was a bit too aggressive and took a toy from DD. (Me: shouting "HEy!" helpfully..) She took it back and he pushed her. Mini-rebbetzin yelled "AASSSSUUUUURRRR" it was hilarious because such a loud noise came out of little DD's mouth- the 6 year old backed away slowly. But it was because we didn't teach her to hit back, but that it is not right to hit. Now DH is contemplating Krav Magaw (sp?) training...

sim

Wed, Sep 30 2009, 11:13 am

When kids quarrel (it's my turn! No, it's mine!) you don't butt in. BUT IF SOMEONE IS SERIOUSLY HARMING YOUR CHILD OR ANOTHER CHILD IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT to at least remove the harmer and/or harmee from the scene (depending on which one is your child). Yes, kids need to learn how to deal with other people's opinions and desires. However, you may not allow a child to hurt another child and you must send a clear message that physical aggression is never acceptable. In your situation, simply removing the older girl from your home would be enough. YOu can fill in the parents later. But you can't allow a child to hurt another child in such a way.

imasinger

Wed, Sep 30 2009, 11:43 am

So, we all agree that it was right to step in for this situation. 100%.

I'm hearing a second question, though. What does one do about an upset father who is still ready to hand that aggressive girl's head to her on a platter, should she go near your DD again?

I agree that this is problematic. Your DH threatening to hurt this child is no better than a big child hurting a smaller child, even if he would be doing it in defense of your DD. The papa bear needs to calm down and see that he is demonizing someone who is still a child, and is making a child's mistakes in not controlling her aggression.

It's an understandable emotion from anyone, and particularly from a first-time father, who hasn't yet seen his own daughter reach that size. But he needs to learn to let go a little. Make sure that you and he have a plan to keep your DD safe around this other girl -- a plan that doesn't involve any harm to her. It is not your job to educate this other girl. You don't have the relationship with her to teach her how to behave. All you can do is protect your DD, and teach her how to protect herself in situations where she can.

Talk to him. Come up with a plan to remove your DD if this girl starts to turn aggressive. React the first time, at the light slap stage; don't wait for the kick in the gut to step forward. Don't attempt to discipline the other girl, just tell your DD, "Let's not play around ___; she's being too rough." And for heaven's sake, don't worry about that being a cowardly response. A cowardly response would be to do nothing, which you are not planning.

shira

Thu, Oct 01 2009, 3:08 am

I don't believe that your situation is what the Rebbetzin was referring to AT ALL. I'd give her a call. PM or call me if you need her number Smile

Mommy3.5

Thu, Oct 01 2009, 9:30 pm

willow wrote:

I think that this is b'shitta idiotic advice.

When an eight year old is ABUSING a 3 year old you do not ignore it. That is not something a child has to LEARN to take.

If kids are having a small squabble, you give them a chance to handle it themselves. When someone is being physical and causing pain it is time for a parent to step in. at the very least talk to the child and tell their parents if it continues.

Ignoring a child kicking in the stomach is completely wrong. Your child has to feel secure in the knowledge that you will protect her. Kissing her is not enough. This child needs to be told that her behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE. I think what your husband did is 1000% correct.

Also tell the parents that if the girl does this again she will not be welcome in your home. Your priority is your daughter. not this little girl with her issues.
Because:

willow

Fri, Oct 02 2009, 6:39 am

imasinger wrote:

imasinger you really got to the heart of it. Well all you who responded were great but imasinger heard the other question. Dh really is seething about this. He goes on and on. I think he can't see past that his dd is getting hurt and she is small compared to the other girl. I did say well you are 4 times the size of this 8-9 year old girl so let it go. I know I know a few more days I think he will be calm enough to hear that we should just let the parents handle it.
But I agree I am going to step in when my dd gets hurt. She does need to know I am on her side and she has someone who will protect her.

willow

Fri, Oct 02 2009, 6:43 am

I just want to thank everyone again for your great advice and hearing me out.

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