guests wrecking the house

amother

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 7:14 am

im feeling a little guilty as I feel I should be more laidback about this. in general, I am a laidback person but I am pretty on top of my kids when it comes to kids destroying furniture, being destructive (in any way). problem is when my friends come over with their kids and their kids literally wreck the house. coloring on furniture/walls, breaking toys, etc.
a mess I dont mind (heck, my kids can make a mess to beat the band) but its the ruining things that really get my goat. I feel like if my own kids dont wreck my house, why should someone else's kids??
my friends (I guess its only one or two) dont really seem to care that much when their kids do something like color with marker all over my toys. maybe they are like this in their own homes and feel this is normal kid behavior. I dont know - I feel uncomfortable bringing it up.
also, I really want to know... is this really normal kid behavior to be so destructive (especially in other ppl's homes)? my own kids are really not like this and I dont know if it is because of me being on top of them or if it just comes more naturally to some kids. my kids are not angels by any stretch of the imagination but I just cant see then breaking other ppl's toys and coloring on their walls, I just dont think they would dare do such a thing.

any thoughts?

tikva18

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 7:22 am

I think the parents aren't being on top of their kids enough - at home or away. My kids know better than to do things like that - I'd hope! and if they did do something inappropriate then I would further hope that the mother at that home would stop them and speak to them.
That said, I had a friend visit and her children were playing in the playroom and they destroyed the playroom - humongus disaster! the worst was the jigsaw puzzles. We like to do puzzles and have a fair number up high, but not locked up - anyway, my friend's kids took those puzzles and dumped them all together - 500pc, 100pc, 750pc - so all the pieces were mixed up. I had to throw the whole lot of them away Sad

. It wasn't worth it to me to mention it to my friend even though it was quite serious - she has enough issues that I didn't need to add to them.

I think we are always working to teach our children what is appropriate - if a child does something that's not okay - then either something isn't right with the child (like in my friend's case - most of her children have serious issues) or the parent isn't parenting enough. Maybe I'm being too harsh - I'll try to be dan l'chaf z'chus - maybe the child had an off day.

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 7:48 am

I expect children not to break things in my house. However, if the child who lives in the house has a special toy that s/he doesn't want to share or mustn't be damaged, I recommend putting it away someplace safe when other kids some over just in case.

Coloring on the walls and breaking furniture is unacceptable at home or away. It is quite ok, IMHO, to tell visitors - both adults and children - your house rules, in a nice way of course. If you know from experience that certain kids are too wild, ask their parents to supervise them when they come over. Be specific about what the children are not to do: "Sure, we'd love to have you and the children come over after lunch. But there is one thing. Would you please watch your kids so they don't write on the walls? Thanks."

BrachaC

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 8:19 am

We tend to have a lot of company and have a pretty high tolerance for mess, but unfortunately we have a couple of family members and friends that we DREAD their visits. I have one nephew who has a very hard time in social situations and acts out by being destructive. One time he broke a relatively new and relatively expensive toy- literally cracked it so that tons of little pieces were all over the play room- we are still sweeping them up. My husband was really angry so I felt like I needed to say something to my sister. About a month ago he came over and where there was a dent in the wall he pulled out the dry wall so we had a big gaping hole in the wall! Again my dh just about lost his mind. My sister basically forced him to apologize- which he never really did properly and then her husband offered to fix it.... but really I am not sure if I will be able to have him over on his own again. Once you know that certain kids are just destructive you really have to be able to supervise them if they are going to be in your house.

mamalooshin

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 8:23 am

I do not think that it's normal for kids over age 2 to be allowed to be destructive. When they're younger they may not understand, and that's fine. But I think that respect for s/o else's property is one of THE BASICS that must be taught to children. We're laid back about messes here, too. I'm not manic about having all the lego cleaned up every night. (Not even close to manic! There's always s/t on the floor.) But I do insist that my son helps to clean up before he leaves a friend's house.

When I park my car in a parking lot, I'll sometimes redo my park so that we shouldn't scratch the next car when we open our doors - and I'll point that out to my kids. When we go out for pizza, I'll tuck my chair back under the table before we leave - "so that nobody trips if the chair is in the way," I've said to my kids. And, btw I do those things when they're not around, too. Even if I'm in a rush. It's basic mentchlechkeit.

yomomf

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 8:39 am

You must have incredible self control. I'm pretty chilled out but wouldn't be okay with that. I know it's not the same thing but we just spent shabbos with a family who has a (3 yr old) son who beats up my baby (literally; smacks, bites HARD etc).
Every time he starts the mother says "look how excited he is about the baby!" while my dh runs to rescue our ds. Finally the husbands went to daven mincha and we were on couch shmoozing and he wnt and smacked my baby. I picked up ds and leaned very close to the little boy and said firmly without yelling 'I do not let you hurt my baby' and he finally backed off.
At least for the rest of shabbos Rolling Eyes

.
When they start acting destructive lean over, take away the crayon, marker or whatever and say strongly, 'sorry, we don't do that at this house'.
If they do it again say 'we love when you come to play but we cannot do it if you are going to break the rules, in this house ____.

SingALong

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 9:34 am

living in a bungalow colony type neighborhood, I have kids running in and out of my house all the time. I need to be on top of the playroom mess situation or else it spirals out of control, but I must say for the most part, most kids are good about not making crazy messes and cleaning up 1-2 toys before leaving (that's my rule, though I do bribe them sometimes..."ok everyone cleans up when toy and when the room is clean everyone will get a treat")

I once had 4 siblings come in to play. they took a box of legos and literally threw them and scattered them all over the room. the place was a disaster area when they were done. their mother cam eot pick them up, said she was in a hurry and left this huge catastrophe. my DD age 4 at the time cleaned up the pieces, and I told her that next time these kids play they may not take anything out of the toy closet. we kept this rule for them for at least a year. one of the kids actually told me that their mother keeps their playroom closet locked. I don't encourage them to play here and if they start getting rowdy I chuck them out the door.

shanie5

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 11:43 am

I have found that if I say s/t kids are likely to be less destructive. If they see that they make a mess or destroy s/t and I dont say anything then it must be okay to do so again. If they are told what is unacceptable then they will usually listen. They need boundaries set by you, not just their mother. (and s/t parents need to be told the boundaries for their kids too).

Miri1

Mon, Feb 07 2011, 2:06 pm

SingALong wrote:

That is probably why they don't know how to handle an open toy closet - it's easier and quicker to keep it locked than to consistently teach them the correct way to play with the toys.
I guess that is the correct thing to do when they come round - you can't start to teach them habits with which they have no familiarity.

levial

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 10:12 am

I have little toleration for this stuff too. I am too tightly wound I suppose. And we have white carpet in the living/dining room. Anyone more laid back is invited to donate to the "wood floor someday" foundation.

When DD has a play date I welcome the person in and in a friendly tone say "We're so glad you're here. Do you have rules at your house? Really? What are they? (let the kid tell me) Here are ours: Chairs and couches are for sitting. Beds are for sleeping. The mini trampoline down in the basement is for jumping! We eat sitting down at a table. Before you leave a room you must help pick up the toys you took out. Coloring is done on paper only. Friends who don't follow these rules may never come back. Ok, have fun and snack is in 1 hour" No one complains, b"h, we have few issues.

I had a mother do the "we're in a hurry" routine two times so the third time I stood my ground, "Well, if we all pitch in, the basement will return to normal in 1 minute" and rounded up her little ones into putting things in 80% order. I help DD clean up if her friends' mommies make them run out the door too fast.

Shabbat guests are harder. I try not to invite people I have observed who have behavior-challenged children who also make no effort to stop them from climbing on walls, etc. I have a friend with a wild-child but she will watch him, and force/help him clean up what he does do. She is always welcome...

Merrymom

Tue, Feb 08 2011, 9:01 pm

I have friends with children like this. I always suspected that there was something seriously wrong with the kids. Just last week one of them ruined my desk for the fun of it when I wasn't looking. I didn't realize until she was about to leave so what was I supposed to do at that point. Well, her mother just told me that she's been diagnosed with a learning disorder, I'm not sure what. I suspect that the adhd kids probably do this stuff more.

mamalooshin

Wed, Feb 09 2011, 5:20 am

Merrymom, I'm assuming that you didn't tell the child's mother a/t.

OP, what would you do if you found out that your child damaged s/o else's property? Halachically, I believe, you're not responsible. Our teenage son was once riding home on his bicycle when he was around 11 yrs old, and he came home with some bruises. He had fallen, and he told us that he knocked into our neighbor's car's side mirror. My husband praised him for telling us and immediately called the neighbor and told him about what had happened and that we expected to pay for it. Our neighbor said: "You know he's a minor. I'm not sure you're responsible to pay a/t." It didn't end up costing us too much, but even if it had, it was the right thing to do. We continue to have a wonderful relationship with those neighbors, although they've since moved away.