Non hechshered gum...

zaq

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 9:57 pm

Raisin wrote:

I also know people who call themselves M.O who openly do things like that. Wheras a chareidi person, if they did do do such a thing, would not admit to it becasue they know it is not halachically acceptable.

Oh,I see. Charedim who knowingly sin and deny it are superior to MOs who sin and admit it. Rolling Eyes

Did you know that the Torah penalty for a burglar (sneak thief who steals at night when people are asleep or away from home) is more severe than for a robber (who accosts people in broad daylight)? Rashi says this is because the robber fears neither G-d nor man, but the burglar has no fear of G-d but does fear man. Just FYI.

MaBelleVie

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:06 pm

zaq wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Oh,I see. Charedim who knowingly sin and deny it are superior to MOs who sin and admit it. Rolling Eyes

You seem to be missing the point: because someone is open about doing something, we are aware and know to be on the lookout to keep the standards we want for our children. Whereas if an entire community holds one way, and your friend appears to as well, you don't see your kids being in her home as an issue in terms of which gum she will offer them.

Besides which, as I understand it, there are MO people who hold that eating non hechshered gum may be fine halachically. They aren't hiding a sin. Whereas I don't believe any chareidim have accepted this Halachic opinion, so if they do it they are knowingly doing what they think is wrong. I was also taught that if you can't control an impulse to sin, doing it in public is worse. It makes the sin less severe in peoples eyes if they regularly witness it.

MaBelleVie

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:08 pm

marina wrote:

the ingridients in kosher orbit and treife orbit are exactly the same...

we are just paying for the kashrus rabbonim's kids' tuition.

Is this what you were told, or is it your assumption? The actual ingredient list may be the same, but that doesn't mean the ingredients have the same source. The same ingredient can be sourced from fish gelatin or pig gelatin. Beetles or berries. Etc.

Merrymom

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:31 pm

marina wrote:

the ingridients in kosher orbit and treife orbit are exactly the same...

we are just paying for the kashrus rabbonim's kids' tuition.

This is not true at all. A special kosher run is made at the plant with kosher ingredients unlike the treife gum.

Here is an excerpt from Rav Zushe Blech of the OU:

Plasticizers can be pure lard or tallow and emulsifiers are also often made from animal fats. Flavors and glycerin can also be completely non-Kosher. Even if all of the ingredients in a Kosher gum were acceptable, the equipment on which the product is made requires a Kashering from non-Kosher productions. Although the gum itself is not swallowed, these fats and flavors migrate from the gum into the mouth.

Last edited by Merrymom on Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

marina

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:37 pm

DUDE, read the ingredients. Buy a kosher pack, walk into a store and compare. Stop drinking the kool aid. That is what I did. The ingredients are the same, but in a different order.

And MaBelle, sure anything is possible. I called Wrigley's and they told me that everything is non-animal. But they could be lying. Or an evil worker could be slipping piggie parts into the mix when no one is watching. Or whatever.

But I doubt it. The entire kashrus industry is probably unnecessary at least 60% of the time. It didn't exist 50 years ago and many people kept kosher by ingredients only.

Merrymom

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:40 pm

marina wrote:

Do you really think the secretary at Wrigley's even understands the difference between various plasticizers?! This is who you depend on to give you kashrus information?

marina

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:53 pm

Let me turn it back on you. How do you, merrymom, know that there is are any actual animal-derivatives in the gum and that the reason a kosher orbit costs four times as much as treife is because our good rabbonim are keeping us away from eating chazer as opposed to paying their bills? Why are you so sure?

MaBelleVie

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:06 am

I'm not merrymom, but I'll answer for myself: I attended a shiur by someone who is knowledgeable in kashrus issues but does not work for a kashrus agency himself. He explained how common it is today, especially with so many unnatural or highly processed products in foods, to have innocent sounding ingredients that are sourced from non kosher sources. He specifically mentioned gelatin and beetles, which obviously are not listed as such. Gum ingredients are about as unnatural and processed as you'll find, so knowing the source based on ingredients is not simple. I chose to believe him, but maybe he's just gulping down the kool aid himself.

Merrymom

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:12 am

marina wrote:

It's not like the American justice system, innocent until proven guilty. It's the other way around. Unless you're buying a raw unwaxed fruit or vegetable you have to assume that everything is treife until you're researched it properly. In this case that means calling a rav that you respect who is knowledgeable about the kashrus industry.

Chana Miriam S

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:37 am

Merrymom wrote:

marina wrote:

I don't know of anyone who says that raw fruit or vegetables, waxed or not is a problem. once it gets cut up there are different opinions, but never, ever have I seen an apple in it's whole form with a hechsher on it or any indication that it even needs one.

Merrymom

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:54 am

chanamiriam wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

marina wrote:

I never said that waxed produce was a problem, only that we can't assume anything is kosher unless it's in it's raw natural state. FTR, there are treife waxes but it's been paskened that we still may eat them anyway because of various halachic reasonings. You can read more about it here:
http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/.....x.htm