Interesting question for polite debate

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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Ima2NYM_LTR

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:13 pm

Please dont tell me to ask my LOR, because this is here as in intellectually stimulating point, not an actual question.

Please also note: I know that some people's Ravs do not pasken the same way my Rav does. For the sake of this discussion, please just lets use the 'what if' of using my Rav's psak. I am not saying you need to agree with it or accept it- its just a discussion and we are using this psak as a given for the following question.

Our Rav holds that you can put laundry in the dryer before Shabbos and let it run until its done, even after Shabbos starts. He also holds that you can use the laundry that was in the machine, as long as you know with complete certainly, when Shabbos starts, that it will be dry. For you to be that certain, it pretty much has to be mostly dry by the time Shabbos starts. (plus obviously opening the dryer cannot turn on any lights, etc)

Now for the question. It is summer, and your (hypothetical) community starts Shabbos early. Not everyone does, but some people do. (It is a diverse group) Some weeks you do, assuming you are ready on time- if not, you keep going until candlelighting.

You have laundry in the dryer on Friday afternoon, and will be accepting Shabbos early. When you light candles, the laundry is partially dry, but not mostly. You have set it to go for the longest possible time. You know that by the time of actual candlelighting, it will be mostly dry.

So can you use the laundry? Does the 'mostly dry' status apply to when you light candles, or when shabbos actually starts? I know when a woman lights candles, she is accepting Shabbos for the whole family- but the machine isnt 'part' of the family and she isnt affecting change on it after lighting candles.

So yes or no? Can she use the laundry that will go from 'somewhat dry' to mostly dry' between the time she lights candles and the time of Shabbos actually starting?

(yes, the easy answer is to play it safe and just dont use it- but Im looking for not easy answers)

Thanks in advance for 'playing' and please keep it civil and non-judgemental

honeygold

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:21 pm

I say that the psak applies to when you personally are mekabel shabbos and not when candle lighting is. Thats my opinion.

mommy#1

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:33 pm

honeygold wrote:

I say that the psak applies to when you personally are mekabel shabbos and not when candle lighting is. Thats my opinion.

That's what I thought too

MaBelleVie

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:37 pm

We do early shabbos, but actually only my dh does. I do melacha until a few min before he gets home, which is pretty much the zman for lighting. So that may be an option.

frumcouple1

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:39 pm

honeygold wrote:

I say that the psak applies to when you personally are mekabel shabbos and not when candle lighting is. Thats my opinion.

I second her.

zaq

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 10:59 pm

Methinks that when you accept Shabbos into your home, you accept it for the household, not just for the humans. Atah uvincha uvitecha, avdecha veamatcha uvehemtecha. The modern-day equivalent of vehemtecha would be appliances.

or maybe not, since we don't actually make our appliances "rest" if they're already working before Shabbos.

But either way, consistency would dictate that if you are accepting Shabbos into your home, you are accepting it and everything it implies for the entire home. Either it's Shabbos or it isn't. Unless, perhaps, you make a tnai before lighting that you're accepting Shabbos for everything except your dryer.

sushilover

Sat, Aug 20 2011, 11:35 pm

I remember learning that the laundry can't be wet by bein hashmashos. I'm assuming that would apply even if you light early.

Lady Bug

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:11 am

sushilover wrote:

I remember learning that the laundry can't be wet by bein hashmashos. I'm assuming that would apply even if you light early.

I second that. If the laundry is mostly dry at bein hashmushos, it's ok. Same applies for things that are muktzah because of a bosis. No difference what time you light candles.

grin

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:18 am

I think that in that situation, she would be wrong to accept shabbos early, seeing that she has a choice, there being a diverse community, and s/times she does and s/time she doesn't. she should wait until the clothes in the dryer are dry first before lighting candles.

BeershevaBubby

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 12:55 am

grin wrote:

That's what I was going to say too... I would have just not made an early Shabbat.

I was told by my Rav however that once you make an early Shabbat, you're obligated for that entire season* to continue making the early Shabbat, that it's not a matter of 'well, this week I'm done early, so I might as well light' and the next week, because you're running behind say you'll bring in Shabbat at the normal time.

* Season meaning for that year's summer time. You'd be obligated for just 2011 but you can decide in 2012, etc. whether you'll do it for that season, etc.

merelyme

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 1:40 am

YESHASettler wrote:

I was told by my Rav however that once you make an early Shabbat, you're obligated for that entire season* to continue making the early Shabbat, that it's not a matter of 'well, this week I'm done early, so I might as well light' and the next week, because you're running behind say you'll bring in Shabbat at the normal time.

* Season meaning for that year's summer time. You'd be obligated for just 2011 but you can decide in 2012, etc. whether you'll do it for that season, etc.

Wow, I never heard this and know many people who switch back and forth.

grace413

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 2:11 am

YESHASettler wrote:

.

I was told by my Rav however that once you make an early Shabbat, you're obligated for that entire season* to continue making the early Shabbat, that it's not a matter of 'well, this week I'm done early, so I might as well light' and the next week, because you're running behind say you'll bring in Shabbat at the normal time.

* Season meaning for that year's summer time. You'd be obligated for just 2011 but you can decide in 2012, etc. whether you'll do it for that season, etc.

Interesting because my DH stays with a yeshivish family that switches back and forth, so obviously there is more than one opinion on the subject (like that's a new flash).

DrMom

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 3:52 am

frumcouple1 wrote:

honeygold wrote:

I say that the psak applies to when you personally are mekabel shabbos and not when candle lighting is. Thats my opinion.

I second her.

Thta's what I learned too.

And I learned that you can make early shabbat whenever you want, with no obligation to do it week after week.

Liba

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 5:55 am

When we asked about making early shabbos the psak we were given was that once we started accepting early Shabbos we would have to year round (not just the summer, but the winter as well). We obviously don't make early shabbos.

On the drier, I really don't know.

imaima

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 7:01 am

Ima2NYM_LTR wrote:

I thought, shabbes definitely starts after they are over with Lecha Dodi in the shul. So, if your community starts shabbes early and davens early, you have a problem.

zaq

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 11:38 am

imaima wrote:

I thought, shabbes definitely starts after they are over with Lecha Dodi in the shul. So, if your community starts shabbes early and davens early, you have a problem.

If the entire community starts early, then you have to as well. If some do and some don't, you can choose which group to join.

6yeladim

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 1:02 pm

I don't know the answer but I'll share a story. One Friday afternoon my 2yo dropped his shoes in the bathtub, so I put them in the dryer. I didn't really care if they were dry before Shabbat but the dryer was on a timer and still running after candle-lighting. He went into the bathroom and started opening and closing the dryer door. He wasn't causing harm so I ignored it. Then I heard the toilet flush. . .
Fortunately the shoes remained in the dryer.

Depressed

Sun, Aug 21 2011, 2:40 pm

my husband said, preferably dont make early shabbos and cause problems for yourself.

In the lomdus , theoretically, from early zman till regular zman you are allowed to ask another yid who wasnt mkabbil shabbos yet to do melocha for you, why should this be different.. The Rasba discusses it.

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