Please help me with a "hard to have" guest

amother

Tue, Oct 25 2011, 9:19 am

Im the op here.

Back to my guest. I saw her at shul simchas torah night and the first thing she did was hand me a flag for my daughter and say "your husband asked me to give you this". Ok so most normal people wouldn't be bothered by that. But for some reason it just annoyed me. Later I was walking out of the womens section to give dd to dance with him. She looked at me and asked me if I wanted her to pass dd to him. I said no thanks and walked right passed her to do it myself.

I feel bad that Im just becoming angry about her. She didnt do anything wrong, she is a little annoying at times and now I feel bad that I get edgy around her.
I think I have just been thinking about it too much.

I turned her down for a meal for simchas torah night, because we weren't going to have any guests. Its too late for me and I like to put the kids to bed after we leave shul (and then dh comes home a litle later- around 10 or so.) I also knew that she had another invite, I was standing next to the other lady when she invited her, but she thought we might be eating earlier than that family.
I told her that we were not going to eat early, but that night when she heard my dh say what time he was coming home, she was like "maybe Ill come wiht you, because I think the other family is leaving later." I said I wasnt sure we would eat until 10:30 or so, and then I just kind of snuck out.

I feel like my middos are so bad around her now...

ora_43

Tue, Oct 25 2011, 10:58 am

OP sorry for going off track earlier.

My take on your situation - based on nothing more than projecting from a similar situation, so insert "maybe" and "one possible explanation" as needed.

I think she's trying to make you her family. Not that she actually wants to steal your husband or family, chv"s. But she's trying to treat you like family, probably without even realizing it.

Most people need a home where they feel like they can go any time, and can be themselves and be a part of things not just another guest. For married people it's usually their own home, for most singles it's their parents' home, some people manage to create it for themselves, but others don't have any of those things. And sometimes end up looking for married friends/hosts to treat them like family without even realizing it.

I think you're uncomfortable with her because she really is pushing the boundaries. Not on purpose. But she wants to be more than just a guest, so she's acting like more than just a guest, and you (who see her as most definitely a guest and not a part of the family) pick up on that and end up uncomfortable.

The complaining - same thing. Being able to be socially "off" around people (to be moody or quiet and just generally not put on a happy face) is a family thing (for good and bad).

I think Fox had good advice. Even if you can try to give her that "family" feeling, letting her be moody is pointless. But it could also be that you need to put some distance between you and her for a while, if you just don't feel up to being what she's looking for.

amother

Fri, Oct 28 2011, 4:12 pm

op here... just a quick vent.

So this girls rabbi (who happens to be the rosh kollel) just left me a message, two hours before shabbos, to see if I can have this girl tonight! He said in the message she can't walk far etc.

ok, Im sorry, but this girl hasn't been able to walk far for like 8 months! Thats not an excuse for her not to make plans and then ask her rav to call me to have her!!!

I haven't even called back. I really can't have her tonight, I mean, I planned a nice small family meal and was not planning on guests.

should I feel bad, what if I was her last resort this week?

Also, last time she told me she would like to get out more and go to other families, I asked her why she doesn't borrow a wheel chair from the g'mach here, and she said she was too embarrased...

Im sorry, but I think its time for her to get the wheel chair and get over it. everyone knows she had a surgery and no one is going to mind pusing the chair from shul to their house for one shabbos.

mummiedearest

Fri, Oct 28 2011, 4:28 pm

amother wrote:

it sounds like she eats out as a guest a lot. if she's able to walk short distances, she's able to make some shabbos food on her own. even if you were her last resort, she has other ways to make shabbos. will it be the best shabbos she's had thus far? probably not. but if it's a bad time for you, it's a bad time for you.

btw, about simchas torah, I think it would have been best if you had said something like, "I'm so sorry, but I hadn't planned on having any guests tonight. I really need some family time. how about another week? I'm sure you'll have a lovely time with the schmaltz family." the way you responded indicated that you were willing to have her, and sneaking out on her was not the best route. if you know she has another invite, you have no reason to feel bad about turning her down. it's obvious she makes you uncomfortable, which is fine, but she can't know what makes you more comfortable unless you tell her.

MrsDash

Fri, Oct 28 2011, 4:49 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

amother wrote:

I completely agree with this statement. There are plenty of single women out there who never get invited for shabbos meals. They make their own shabbos meals every week. If anything, this woman should be THANKFUL & APPRECIATIVE that she always has a place to eat for shabbos. If she can't find meals, she can make her own.

OP, don't feel bad. It sounds like you've already gone above and beyond for this woman. Time to focus on your family, and your happiness. Shabbos is a time to relax, enjoy family quality time, and rid yourself of stress.

mummiedearest

Sat, Oct 29 2011, 8:18 pm

amother wrote:

Im not sure if I wrote this in my post about simchas torah or not, but she had asked me previously about comning and I had turned her down... so she knew I wasnt really sneaking out. I also knew who she had plans by and that she had plans. I doubt she thought I was sneaking out when she knew I had already told her no.

if that was the case, you should have reiterated that your meal was closed to guests that night. telling her you might not eat until 10:30 or so sounds like you might actually be open to hosting, as long is it's not too late FOR HER. it's possible she forgot that you said no, it's possible she was hoping you forgot, and it's possible she was hoping you'd changed your mind. you need to tell her that YOU have some need for privacy sometimes. if you tell her you might not eat until 10:30, it sounds like you turned her down for HER OWN comfort, not yours. if she said she might come with you instead of the other family, it's obvious she likes your family better. she pretty much told you what her comfort zone is, so tell her what yours is.

there's a woman I know who has some special needs. the most difficult of her issues to deal with is a lack of understanding of social propriety. I had to deal with her daily for a while, and it took me months to figure out that the best way to deal with her was to tell her point blank when something she was doing was inappropriate. it felt so rude to do it, but I realized that she just doesn't have that social barometer, but that she can learn. it turns out, she'd get upset at herself when I pointed things out, but was very grateful for the instruction. she was very careful with those specific things once I pointed them out to her.

I don't know if this guest of yours lacks social understanding. however, it's obvious that she is not a mind-reader, and if she is somewhat depressed, that can have a dampening effect on one's ability to read others' cues. resenting her behavior when you give her mixed signals is not really fair of you. while I totally understand your frustration and resentment (I had it with the above lady as well), NOTHING will help you if you continue to beat around the bush. telling her "I'm sorry, I already told you that I can't host you tonight" is NOT a confrontation, it is a reminder. it is more open than you're comfortable with, obviously, but you're going to feel like a doormat if you don't learn to speak up. your husband can prepare more to say at the table, as you mentioned. you can also start slowly weaning her off of your family if you find her hard to deal with. there is nothing wrong with this. again, she is an adult, I'm sure she can figure out a crock pot if she doesn't like other families. she may want a family to belong to, but it is not your duty to provide that, especially if her presence makes you uncomfortable. feel free to talk to her rav about limiting the number of meals she has at your house, and see if he can find other people to host her since she wants to be hosted.

mummiedearest

Sat, Oct 29 2011, 10:06 pm

skazm wrote:

btw I was single a long time, for you to say "yeah let her make shabbos food on her own" - that's a painfully callous thing to read. It isn't about that - it's about being lonely and needing a real shabbos.

Then again I had a lot of different places to go when I was single in Israel so I didn't have to nudge my way into a family that didn't want me.

my point was not that she should have to be alone every shabbos, but that op should not feel that her house is this woman's ONLY chance to have shabbos. much as I feel for single women, it is not the op's responsibility to provide this guest with a meal if it is an imposition. I totally understand why this woman wants to be hosted. I'm not negating that. but it's a fact that one CAN'T expect to be hosted by people week in, week out, especially if one is not the most gracious guest.

sarahla

Sat, Oct 29 2011, 11:07 pm

amother wrote:

She always tells us that she wants to get married so she can have kids. forget the husband, just give her the kids. she looks at my baby and is always asking if she can take her home b/c she "loves" her and she wants one of "those" herself.
.

I wouldn't let her near my kids...G-D Forbids you never know if she kidnaps her or something chasv'shalom...I mean I know it sounds extreme but in today's world pp are insane...I remember reading a few months ago that a housekeeper took the baby of a chabad couple ...thank G-D they found her but she was in a train station when they did!!!! I'd be careful not to let her out of my sight when my kids are around!!!