Don't let your son play with that boy, he's trash!

southernbubby

Sun, May 21 2006, 1:08 am

That was the advice that my son's teacher gave me many years ago regarding a child in the neighborhood who was neglected. That boy is no longer frum and whenever my son comes home from yeshiva, he tries to speak to him. Unfortunately, neglected children in our community often become "trash". In other words, if the parents don't care for a child, no one else will either. In this case, the child was not physically neglected, but discipline was non-existant in that home. In other cases, children come to school hungry and dirty. In one Jewish Press article, a teacher could not relate to a small girl because of neglect of the child's appearance. What is the solution to this or is there a solution to this?

Tefila

Sun, May 21 2006, 5:14 am

Quote:

In other words, if the parents don't care for a child, no one else will either

Beg to differ there are some who do.
and

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In one Jewish Press article, a teacher could not relate to a small girl because of neglect of the child's appearance

Disgusting what type of teacher was she Mad

She should've done something about it. a) speak to the mother offer to call for a home help, blame it on the fact the poor kid has little or no friends or b) done it herself. But that the kid should suffer is more then despicable on the teachers part Exclamation

PinkandYellow

Sun, May 21 2006, 5:27 am

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In one Jewish Press article, a teacher could not relate to a small girl because of neglect of the child's appearance.

Years ago, my mom was a teacher in a preschool in a BY. Everyday, one girl would come in, always dirty, hair messy and uncombed and not clean clothes and because of this girls wouldn't play with her. Apparently, she wasn't really being taken care of at home. Everyday, b/4 class started, my mom took her to the bathroom, combed her hair, cleaned her face, made her look more like a mentch. She would put her in charge to help her with passing out papers and diff things. the change was amazing. the girl was able to learn well and made friends bec the morah liked her and she was clean and not a nebech.

It's a chutzpa that someone can call a little child trash and call herself a teacher. The two don't coincide.

Flowerchild

Sun, May 21 2006, 8:24 am

moshedavidsmom that was nice of your mom to do and very wise, the helped this little girl and it probably made her life better and gave her hope. it perplexes me why some people decide to be teachers if they cannot face all the challenges that come with this profession, and what else infuriates me is how some teachers tend to have an air of authority and "discard" certain children because they dont fit the mold. I was teaching in a school a few years ago and we had a teachers meeting and the principal was giving us a yet another annoying speech and she was saying how they got rid of a one girl because she couldnt read in the middle of the year. and she felt that she helped her because this way the girl will get the help she needs, I almost fell off my chair. its like teachers and principles want perfect students and children in their schools, if god forbid something goes wrong they are unfit. a school is supposed to provide tutoring, help children who might come to school unclean or troubled. it seem like some school will through a child out for anything and that can be much much more detrimental to a child, for some kids school is a good escape from their life at home and teachers should have more kindness and compassion. I pray to god that I become a good teacher all around.

Motek

Sun, May 21 2006, 8:43 am

mommy#1 wrote:

a school is supposed to provide tutoring, help children who might come to school unclean or troubled.

supposed to?

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I pray to god that I become a good teacher all around.

The fact that you pray and sound like you really care, bode well for your future students!

seniormom

Sun, May 21 2006, 10:46 am

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...for some kids school is a good escape from their life at home and teachers should have more kindness and compassion.

Quote:

mommy#1 wrote:
a school is supposed to provide tutoring, help children who might come to school unclean or troubled.

Quote:

Motek wrote:
supposed to?

Yes, the federal govt gives funding for tutoring/remedial classes/resource rooms/shadows, etc. There is help out there if the adults around a needy child care enough.

Also, isn't it a law that schools MUST report any signs of abuse or neglect?

Sometimes a mother is inept at raising kids, or may be sick/depressed/metally unstable...if the yeshiva were to look into the problem the child would be helped and maybe also the mother (and any other neglected children)...teachers are supposed to be professionals...how can they just throw a child away?

This happens too often so something must be seriously wrong with the priorities signaled by an administration so concerned with "reputation" and "conformity" that they forget about the students. In 120 years they will be asked not only how many children they saved, but also how many were lost at their own hand. I wonder what they will answer. Pale

southernbubby

Sun, May 21 2006, 10:55 am

Although schools are required to report neglect and abuse, Jewish schools possibly do not conform like public schools do. First is the problem of informing to secular authorities about a Jew and possibly causing the child to be put in non-Jewish foster care. The second is possibly ignorance of the law, and the third is possibly that nobody cares. Look how long it took for a caring teacher to rescue David in the book "The Child Call It". Sometimes it could take a long time before a caring teacher comes along.

Blossom

Sun, May 21 2006, 11:23 am

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I surely hope there are Jewish Agencies and Organizations to report to when such cases arise.

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a school is supposed to provide tutoring, help children who might come to school unclean or troubled.

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supposed to?

If one considers themself a "teacher" with a yiddishe Neshama I definitely think they're supposed to. Maybe not tutoring but how about some compassion and love and help for an innocent helpless little neshamala who is already suffering. How can a teacher's heart not want to help such a child???

Quote:

...for some kids school is a good escape from their life at home and teachers should have more kindness and compassion.

How true this is.

seniormom

Sun, May 21 2006, 11:41 am

I don't believe that the yeshivas are ignorant of the law. They have to sign innumerable documents attesting to their responsibilities in order to receive govt funds.

There may not be that many Jewish agencies to report to, but there are enough...where there's a will there's a way. Alternatively, the school or teacher could take a hands-on approach, like some of the wonderful and caring teachers cited above.

Unfortunately, experience has shown that in these cases the school (I.e., founder/funder/administrator) cares more about its image than the life of a child. Or maybe they're just too lazy to extend themselves.

So what are they doing in the field of chinuch??? Scratching Head

seniormom

Sun, May 21 2006, 12:23 pm

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Well what about kids who are fed and washed but neglected emotionally?

That certainly would require the teacher to be more perceptive than average, but if s/he is beginning to label the child "trash" I would think that as a "professional" the teacher should see a red flag there. And btw, I think it's terribly "unprofessional" for any educator to call a child "trash" ...under any circumstances (to say nothing of the loshon horah being spread).

If any teacher comes close to thinking that way about a student, s/he should (a) examine her/his own feelings as to why this is eliciting such a strong response, (b) recognize that the problems are not of the child's own doing, and (c) immediately consult with a social worker or educational psychologist to figure out how to best help an obviously troubled student.

If a teacher cannot do any of the above, then I propose that the teacher be dismissed for inappropriate behavior, not the child. (The thought of the additional damage a teacher can inflict by such thoughts/remarks makes me cringe.)

Schools are for children to grow and learn. The adults vested with that responsibility have an obligation to teach by example...even if it takes extra effort.

morningstar

Sun, May 21 2006, 12:33 pm

I am surprised that the the conversation is focusing exclusively on the responsibility of teachers. Because there is only one teacher for a class of twenty kids, but there are nineteen other mothers who could help out, who could invite the child over after school, who could help provide models of warm a warm and loving home for the child that has none.

Often schools are quick to reject troubled children because it is the parents who agitate for the troubled child to expelled. It does not speak well of adminstrators or teachers that they bow to this kind of parental pressure, but as parents, we have more power to stop this kind of thing than we sometimes like to admit.

seniormom

Sun, May 21 2006, 12:49 pm

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I am surprised that the the conversation is focusing exclusively on the responsibility of teachers.

I think the reason for this focus is the title of the thread...this was said by a "teacher" to at least one parent, and probably more. Sounds almost as if the parents were being instigated to reject this child, not the other way around.

It would be a great chessed if other parents would help out when another parent falters in their care of the child, but how many are wiling to take a chance and let their own children be exposed to "trash"? Very few, I would imagine. The dangers of rechilus at work. Twisted Evil

morningstar

Sun, May 21 2006, 1:17 pm

=
Seniormom, given the (young age) age of many of our elementary school teachers, I would not be surprised if this kind of lashon hara originated not with the teacher, but with some "well-meaning" parent.

And so longas the parents of classmates are willing to treat a child like a pariah, there is going to be a limit to how much a subsequent teacher can do to turn around the life of the child.

The fact is that helping troubled children involves risks. (For those wonderful teachers who are bathing an unbathed child: this is the kind of thing that can result in a molestation lawsuit nowadays, unless you have received parental permission and insure that there is another adult present at the time.)

As a community, we have to work together to figure out how to minimize the risks while heeding the cries of children in need of help.

southernbubby

Sun, May 21 2006, 2:30 pm

The other mothers would have had to extend themselves more than they were able if they were to have become involved. Remember that they were all struggling to keep it together for their own families and to take on another responsibility was beyond their ability. To undertake raising money and hiring help for the family would have also been a daunting long term situtation that mothers of large families were not able to undertake.

morningstar

Sun, May 21 2006, 10:03 pm

"Lo alecha hamelachah legmor, velo atah ben chorin lehibatel mimenah."

You are right, Southern Bubby, it is a daunting task for any parent (particularly those of large families) to take on singlehandedly.
And yet if every parent undertook to have this child over for a Shabbos meal once or month.. or invited the child along once in a while on a family outing to the park... are made sure the child attended a weekly class mesibas shabbos by making sure the classmates would pick her up... I.e. amde her part of adult-supervised "group" activities-- the danger to one's own child would be minimal, the effort every parent would have to expend would be manageable, and the collective difference to the neglected child's life could be dramatic.

mirisimma

Tue, Oct 10 2006, 5:23 pm

hey, I knwo this is an old thread, just wanted to add something. the (frum) organization ohel deals with R'L neglected and abused children. they find a temporary home for the child while they actively resolve the problems at home: they provide both parents and children medical finanical psychological assistance. their goal is to put the child back home whenever possible. FYI

re the original post though.... I agree that your child shouldnt be "used" to be nice to a neglected kid if it may harm your own child, but that doesnt mean "drop the whole thing." you can still intervene yourself through the kid or the parents with yoru own help or with directing them to professionals. and if the situation isnt quite that dramatic, I bet most well eductaed children could deal with a playdate thats 100% supervised by the normal parent, if you tell your kid ahead of time that this is going to be more like a chesed project.

there was a weird girl in my class that was generally nice but dressed funny and never had lunch or lunch money and had a bad temper. so obviously she didnt have friends, but my mom basically made it clear to me that it was a chesed to be nice to her and we had "chessed" playdates in MY house with MY mom around and I think it made her feel really good. and when she did wierd things I knew that I'm not supposed to try to fit in and emulate her. this obviously doesnt work for every situation though