If you are going to go to shul to.....

miriamnechama

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 1:45 pm

This comes up alot but these 2 incidents really bothered me.

first day RH I was davening musaf in shul, this woman right behind me was making really loud strange noises to the point I couldn't concentrate, not only that she was making crazy hand motions that she nearly hit me.... I kept quiet I didn't say anything but honestly I felt like "why are you trying to daven with such kavana while disturbing someone else?" and I don't even know if she realized it but I didn't want to embarress her so left it don't know what I should have done!!

second day a lady comes in 2 kids in tow, she from the neighbourhood and she did this last year also, I felt enought my kids aren''t home I have no babies it's my chance to daven. her youngest it 4 and clearly too young to be in shul she goes to me oh great now he is bigger I can finally daven... well her kids made a noise and she started talking to me, finally I told her this is not on, I came here to daven and not talk and please keep your kids from making a noise to which she bragged but he's older I can daven..... I never took my kids to shul at that age 4 or 5 now they are in uman, I get the chance to daven maybe next year I won't.... I think she should have been with her kids.....

ok what would you have done?

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 2:07 pm

miriamnechama wrote:

first day RH I was davening musaf in shul, this woman right behind me was making really loud strange noises to the point I couldn't concentrate, not only that she was making crazy hand motions that she nearly hit me

This does not sound like the usual talking-in-shul/noisy-children problem. Is it possible that this woman's "loud strange noises" and "crazy hand motions" are part of a medical problem or syndrome of some kind?

miriamnechama

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 2:55 pm

cm wrote:

miriamnechama wrote:

that's what I don't know that's why I kept quiet after all I don't even know her!! I don't daven there during the year I daven elsewhere but Rh and Yk I like yeshiva davening better..

r_ch

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 3:56 pm

I'm with you. I schedule my davening in shul so carefully that I don't want to miss a minute!

On the second day during musaf there was a girl of 8 literally swinging from boredom between the rows. I was in a second worse position, while an elderly lady got it all. Can't say if there was an inch between the girls's hands and the lady's nose.
But the worst was last y"k. In our shul there are rooms for children and a kitchen to eat. No_way. One lady brought in her son about 6 y.o. with a snack. They were sitting right next to me, and the Mummy showed her beloved son how to daven while crunching on his bamba. On yom kippur, yes. And I had been sure I ran away from mine and their bambas! Yikes:)

Happy18

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 6:52 pm

I cannot stand the fact that while the shul has groups going on for the kids to go to, mothers insist on bringing their children into shul. I understand if they want the kids in shul for shofer blowing, but the entire time is unfair to everyone else. Also, if you keep a bag of candy with you for your child to eat and they run in and out of shul all day to ask for more, thats unfair to everyone in the shul because the kids are just disturbing the room. I have seen many children who know how to behave appropriately in shul, this is a beautiful thing to witness, however out of close to 50 children who were in and out of our minyan on RH maybe 2 sat nicely during davening.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 8:09 pm

I left my kids with a babysitter so I could spend 2 mornings a year in shul, pouring my heart out and being uplifted. In the tiny shul I was in (really the only option for miles), someone decided to bring her three month old to the ENTIRE davening, BOTH days. He was not the sort of baby who sleeps all the time, and she was not the sort of woman who has respect for shul, the baal tefila, or the other congregants. It was very upsetting. I tried to view the entire scenario as a nisayon, but my davening was really disrupted.

wifey

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 11:48 pm

iluvy wrote:

Raisin wrote:

If someone wants to daven and can keep her kids reasonably quiet I don't see why a mother should not be able to come to shul for short stretches of time.

Talking in shul is obviously wrong, but plenty of women and men do this. Sad

My two-year-old shushed two women who were talking Smile

iluvy, teach me your ways! My 2 year old won't sit still or keep quiet for aminute in shul. DC is a running commentary of everything going on in that keppie! (For the record he was home with a sitter).

Fabulous

Wed, Sep 19 2012, 11:50 pm

wifey wrote:

iluvy wrote:

Raisin wrote:

My two-year-old shushed two women who were talking Smile

I call my three year old: the "announcer"

He announces everything both good and bad I.e. she is sleeping or the boy is picking his nose Wink

we just went to shul for women's shofar and that was plied with healthy snacks and even then he couldn't help himself and announced a few things LOL

etky

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 4:00 am

miriamnechama wrote:

We have someone like that in our shul - in the men's section but right up against the mechitza, close to where I sit. A young man who makes very demonstrative, dramatic gestures - sort of like beseeching hand movements and facial expressions, and jumping up and down and swaying in a comical way. It is very distracting but I also find it discomfiting. It made me feel like an involuntary witness to this person's innermost emotions and communication with Hashem. Something so very private and personal that it was unseemly that it should be on public display, aside from the fact of it being an intrusion into other people's physical and sensory space. I don't think there is anything to do about it though. What can you say w/o terribly embarrassing the person?
RE the kids situation - you are totally within your rights to ask the woman to keep her kids quiet or leave. I would have done the same.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 20 2012, 12:56 pm

imasinger wrote:

I have 3 kids with ADHD, who have a very difficult time sitting in shul and being quiet. I try to hire sitters for them, but I also need for them to try being with me or DH once in a while, so they can learn.

I completely DISagree. I never went to shul with my mother or father until I was ready. If you make shul out to be something that they want to do, they do not need any "learning" of going to shul.

I completely agree with the OP. I find it completely rude if people bring children, of any age, to shul that can not sit quietly. I know my daughter, almost 4 1/2, can sit quietly for about ten minutes and then asks to go to the park. I know this so I did not go in to shul. It is not fair. On the other hand, there was a lady with a baby, maybe 6 months old, who was wearing the baby and the baby was completely quiet the entire time. Nothign wrong.

But to "teach" a child about sitting in shul? And on RH or YK? I think that that is very wrong. Take them to the end of shabbat davening, for ten minutes and then add a few minutes every few weeks. But not on the yommim noraim.