Temporary tatoos forbidden in preschool???

amother

Tue, Jan 02 2007, 11:24 pm

The other day, my four-year-old went to school with a temporary tatoo on her hand (picture of a harmless kid's character). That evening I overheard her telling her older sister (who had given her the tatoo) that her morah made her scratch it off. When I probed, she said the teacher said she was going to scratch it off for her, but my daughter elected to do it herself before the teacher had a chance.
DH and I both feel this was totally uncalled for.
A) What's the diff. between a temp. tatoo and a stamp or sticker?
B) Was it such a big deal that it was worth making a four-year-old feel bad?
C) If it is a big deal, shouldn't a call to parents be in order, rather than making the four-year-old handle the situation?
DH wanted to call the head of the preschool, but I felt we should talk to the teacher first. Not right to go to principal before talking to teacher, right?

yoyosma

Tue, Jan 02 2007, 11:31 pm

I agree that they should have called you first and I also agree that a temporary tatoo shouldnt be allowed.
There is a big difference between stamps and tatoos, IMO. Its also the fact thats its called a tatoo, the kids know that it has a name.
That being said, the teacher was wrong to embaress your child.

amother

Tue, Jan 02 2007, 11:41 pm

OP here. My older daughter (seven) calls the temp. one's Jewish Tatoos. She understands the difference and I really don't see what the big deal is. Isn't there a thing: for everything prohibited there's a permitted version?
Someone's gonna have to give me a better explanation of what's wrong with it. My three year old gets a stamp on her "shema hand" every day. Those are a lot harder to wash off than the tatoos!

chavamom

Tue, Jan 02 2007, 11:45 pm

One of my boys drew on himself and his rebbe made a 'project' for him to find out the different shitos about temporary tatoos. Apparently there is one that says you shouldn't do it. OK, I don't remember all the details (and it might have just been a shaila of a chatzitzah between your arm and your tephillin). Boy, I've really elucidated the matter, haven't I?

chavamom

Tue, Jan 02 2007, 11:56 pm

amother wrote:

so that would include stamps too.

I don't think so. When my kids get stamps they come off in the bath. Ds said 'permanent marker' could be a shaila and things that last 'like a week'.

yoyosma

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 12:00 am

I think people are against the whole concept of being a tatoo, which is assur.
A stamp is for good behavior, a tatoo is just a tatoo!!
I dont know. But I do know that most schools dont allow them. Also, the inks and dyes cant be that great for the skin.

TzenaRena

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 12:04 am

yoyosma wrote:

Where do you see that the teacher embarrassed the child? Confused

If a school doesn't allow nail polish on elementary school students, then it stands to reason it wouldn't allow something that's totally a street look.(To qualify that I'm not that familiar with these temporary tatoo thingies and how prost they do or don't look, my kids never asked for them, maybe they are very new, but I think I know what they are.) I'm sure the school has policies.

You can't expect them to warn parents about every unexpected new non jewish style that pops up. As general policy though, schools reserve the right to decide whether something is inappropriate, and that's usually made clear in those booklets that go out every summer, before the school year starts..

Last edited by TzenaRena on Wed, Jan 03 2007, 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Tefila

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 1:54 am

Quote:

When I probed, she said the teacher said she was going to scratch it off for her, but my daughter elected to do it herself before the teacher had a chance.

That teacher imo handeled it all wrong. That is if your dd gave over exactly what happend.
If a kid that age comes with something inappropiate then a parent can be called or told about it. IT is not the kids fault and how dare the teacher say she will scratch it off, . Who does she think she is Mad

Imo yes I would go straight to the Teacher don't bypass her Exclamation

Ask her exactly what happend and see if it goes with your dd said. B/c even the most honest kids at that age can't always give an exact loshon Wink

TzenaRena

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 2:14 am

imo, it depends on the school, and student body. An out of town Orthodox day school may have different standards, more leniency than an in town school, such as Bais Yaakov, or Bais Rivkah.

if it's the former, I could understand what you are saying Tefila, but I'm not sure I agree about BY or BR. Parents know when they send their children outfitted inappropriately and below community standards. some of these little tots' parents though, it seems, are still rebelling or at least testing; making a mockery of the school's standards, daring the school to do something.

Quote:

IT is not the kids fault and how dare the teacher say she will scratch it off, . Who does she think she is

I think teachers have received certain guidelines from the hanhala. They don't act on their own in these cases, they follow school policy. My daughter has been ordered on very cold days that her sweater be taken off in class, bec. it's not school uniform, even though it's solid blue, the right color. It was even confiscated once . I can't say I was happy, but I could not have taanos. It's not like I didn't know... even if her uniform sweater does need to get washed sometimes too.

Tefila

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 2:24 am

Quote:

My daughter has been ordered on very cold days that her sweaters be taken off in class, bec. it's not school uniform, even though it's solid blue, the right color. It was even confiscated once .

Ridiculous Mad

, if one is tznius and wearing the right color and it's cold................ I am sorry but if it was me oh yea I would have more then a taaneh. A kid can get sick that way what is the teacher thinking. Rolling Eyes

yoyosma

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 8:52 am

Quote:

Where do you see that the teacher embarrassed the child? Confused

Quote:

Was it such a big deal that it was worth making a four-year-old feel bad?

Maybe embaress was the wrong word, but you get my drift.

As for the sweater being confiscated, that is common in every school that enforces their uniform rules. It happened to me when I was in High School too.

gryp

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 10:56 am

Quote:

Ridiculous , if one is tznius and wearing the right color and it's cold................ I am sorry but if it was me oh yea I would have more then a taaneh. A kid can get sick that way what is the teacher thinking. .

Tefilah, that happens everywhere. You can see what schools put their efforts into. Rolling Eyes

Tefila

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 11:01 am

Quote:

Tefilah, that happens everywhere

NO it does NOT Twisted Evil

Yes if it's the wrong color not tznius etc but gimme a break, Schools should be focusing on bigger issues like CHUTZPA and kids older then 9yrs who have temper tantrums in school Rolling Eyes

Tefila

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 11:09 am

Have you been to this city and lived here for a while? Well then if the answer is no, I can't imagine how you would know Scratching Head

Besides it's a universal problem our boys and girls here are not martians shock

NotInNJMommy

Wed, Jan 03 2007, 12:09 pm

Regarding the sweater issue, while it is inconvenient and we don't see the Torah shailoh here, it is important to enforce the rules and dress code. If even the minute details (as well as major) are enforced then the parents/students take the policies seriously that they will all be enforced and that they mean something. How is a student supposed to grasp the concept of Kabbalos Ohl when they get taught that some rules are real and mean something and others don't? This isn't just the parents' responsibility. There are school administrators who need to take this advice, IMHO.

There was recently a letter from R. Shea Hecht in the Tishrei issue of the N'shei Chabad Newsletter, which discussed some things along this line. Start teaching children that certain rules don't matter, and then they will start to pick and choose even the rules of their parents and ch"v the Torah too.

Regarding the teacher and tattoo, I think it's important to ask her what went on. Children, even the best, can get the loshon wrong. Maybe the teacher was very gentle in her approach and pulled her aside and discussed removing it. This can easily be lost in the "translation" of a child.