Gan: Higher rates for late-sign ups?

cs1

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 10:45 am

the extra charge for after chagim is the best idea for u. but it will have to wait for next year.

I run a camp and parents are so impossible sometimes! they sign their child up a day before camp or many times the first day of camp. Its a huge headache and so much extra paperwork. rosters, trips, bunk, staffing issues all need to be changed last minute. For the coming year, I will be changing.my.camp policy. For starters, I will be closing registration the week before camp and anyone that wants to sign up will have to wait for the second/third day of camp. In addition, I will have an extra charge for anyone that signs up after registration closes.
All parents will be receiving an email in october with our new policies, and it will be very clearly written on our website.
its not the same situation as yours, as I am running a big professional camp, and especially because parents pay for the weeks they want their child to attend camp, but I wanted to give you my perspective regarding charging extra for signing up late.
it is totally reasonable, but parents need to be aware of your policies in advance

fromnj

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 11:03 am

I am in a similar situation from the opposite side. My kids' school has an aftercare program that does fill up. I need aftercare on Wednesdays and Thursdays, which means in Tishrei I will need exactly 2 days. I'm still paying the full amount because I need the spot and if I don't take it, someone else will.

For your situation, I'm understanding that people are asking you to hold their spot for two months and not compensating you for that. It's fine if no one wants that spot, but what if someone does? You shouldn't have to forgo the income because someone requested the spot first, but isn't paying. If I were you, I would be up front with people and say: "Right now, I have spots for Cheshvan. But if someone comes and wants one of my spots before then, I want to give it to them, because this is my business and I need the income. If you want to secure your spot, you can give me a non-refundable deposit of X and I will guarantee your spot for Cheshvan."

I would not make the fee the same as the fee for elul and tishrei! I'd make the fee 1/2 a month, because the truth is, your life is also being made easier by having fewer children at the beginning. But you also want to let people know that by passing on the opportunity to take another kid for an additional month, you are losing out on money.

amother

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 2:04 pm

HI I AM AMOTHER PLAYGROUP MORAH
I would like to try and shed some light on the situation. BTW, I am amother because I do not want to out myself as a morah under my screenname, it would possibly out me to people who already suspect they know my screenname but are not sure!

The fact is: in my playgroup, as in most others, I think, I charge a set tuition fee for the whole year because people always sign up for a full year in my city. Then we divide the tuition over ten months and therefore the parents are paying me for september and april which are months where there are fewer days of playgyoup due to yomtov, as well as paying me for october etc which are months with little or no vacation. The reason why this system is fair is because I do playgoup for the whole school year with the legal number of school days. parents know that they are not paying for vacation days, rather their tuition is divided over ten months to make it more affordable.

Therefore, if a parent asks to start after yomtov, I would say sure no problem, I understand how you feel. you are concerned about the stopping and starting due to constant vacation days, and worried that it might be hard on your child. I would probably give them a slight tuition discount , eg 50% off the first month. So, why would I not let them have the first month free altogether? The answer is obvious: the other parents are not paying me for september, rather they are actually paying me for one tenth of the year's tuition. If the parent of a child starting after yomtov does not pay the first of the ten instalments at all, then she is ending up paying way less per day of school than all the other parents., because Tishrei was a mostly vacation month. And no,I am not a money-grabbing morah, just a normal lady trying to be fair to all at the same time as trying to put bread on my table.

truth be told, it is very hard for both morahs and kids when yomtov is so early. I am looking forward to next year when yomtov will be really late! I always wish I lived in the southern hemisphere and did not have the start of the shcool year so mixed up with yomtov!

So, I am wondering if the OP of this thread is in the same position as I am. Is she charging a yearly rate and dividing it into ten equal payments? Maybe that is where some of you are misunderstanding her? just thinking aloud...

and,next time you think a playgroup Morah is trying to milk you for all the can unfairly, please think again,and realize that perhaps she is being fair after all. Some people find that it is always hard to think straight when money is involved...

amother

Sun, Aug 11 2013, 4:47 pm

Hello, long amother playgroup Morah!

Yes, I hear you and you're very validating. Nice to hear it from the same side, huh? So maybe different Morahs do different things, but here we have gan RH elul thru tisha b'av and charge 12 full months. There's a week off for sukkos and chanuka, 2 weeks for pesach and 3 weeks in av. So in total its 7 weeks vacation, spread out over the year and parents pay the same for 12 full months. So I don't know how you want to look at it, I never even made the calculation how much it is yearly bc e/t in EY is in monthly terms, not yearly. Obectively it is a full year divided into twelve.

Advice I've been getting around here is "al tihiyeh tzodek(es), tihiyeh chacham". Lmaysah ppl around here are going to be annoyed with this penalty. Its really chaval but I'm letting my gayvah get caught up in this a little. Trying to breathe deeply and look at a lot of brachos in my life and leaving it to Hashem. Its not done here and its going to give me a bad name. Long chizzuk talk with a mentor really did help...

going to call them back and tell them if the spot is still there after sukkos, its theirs... and pls daven for us for parassa and brachos!!

RachelEve14

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 12:44 am

amother wrote:

Fromnj, thanks! Your advice and validation was most appreciated.

Just want to clarify: You think I should sign up this kid for Cheshvan and take 1/2 month non-refundable deposit (for both elul and tishrei?) and if someone comes in like 2 weeks (unlikely...) tell them the spot is already reserved...

makes sense, thank you!

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking a deposit. Tell the parent without one that you can not guarantee there will be a spot. All the private metaplot do that around here, take 250 or so, non refundable, when you sign up. However, if the parent wants to chance it and shows up the first week of Cheshvon, you can not take money for Tishray. Yes, it's different. The parents paying then guaranteed their spot. Also, even if it's just a few days, the people did get a service (gan) or a guarantee of a space. You can't take money in Cheshvon when Tishray is already over and they want to start immediately. Or you can, it's your business, but I don't think it's right and I would find a different gan for my kid.

RachelEve14

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 12:48 am

amother wrote:

OK so I have a question. If you for whatever reason had a spot mid year, and someone new moved in or decided to start his or her child, you would still charge 10 months? Of course not (I assume). I get that the average out as far as vacation and some months are more and some less, but if a new family moved to your town in January and had a spot, you would really charge them tuition (even a portion) for the beginning of the year?

Also, I charge August proportionately. This year I opened in December (because I came off maternity leave), and I did not get the full amount of August, just a percentage. The parents didn't get service in Sept / Oct / Nov, so they did not have to pay full vacation as I did not earn it.

amother

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 12:24 pm

hi racheleve, this is the playgroup morah amother. you are right, if someone signed up in the middle of the year and I stilll had a spot, I obgviously would not charge the whole year's rate, but that is because by the middle of hte year the vacation days have kind of evened out a bit. when somebody is trying to sign up after yomtov on a year when yomtov is so early, then it is clearly not right to not charge for september because tehere are so few school days in september that it si not at all evened out.
in fact last year somebody joined in novembr, I was not 100% sure how ot charge them, but htey insisted on paying for 8.5 months instead of just 8, bec of this exact reason.

fromnj

Mon, Aug 12 2013, 1:10 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, that is what I am saying. I think it is a good compromise everyone can live with (I hope!).

You could also do this: Take a month's deposit, and tell them you will apply half of the fee to Cheshvan. This prevents further loss if they take Elul and Tishrei to find other arrangements.