dinner invite from not Jewish coworker

willow

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 12:33 pm

amother wrote:

I'm not aware of this medical condition that causes Jews to act abnormal and unfriendly around non-Jews. Is this a tropical disease?

Oh please she did not say that. Be as open minded as you wish but she is choosing to keep herself from having more of a relationship with non-jews. Yes you feel exposure is fine. She doesn't. YOur choice is NO more legitimate then hers.

smss

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 12:38 pm

monseychick wrote:

In a word.... ABSOLUTELY[b]

smss, are you a SAHM

no, I'm not, but I've been lucky enough to only work in frum places so far. I too would be uncomfortable with this kind of thing and I was just wondering if it's really a career-killing move to say no.

Ruchel

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 12:53 pm

REALLY depends on your job and the type of firm.
My mom was like OP, not at all interested. Problem is part of her job was meals with clients (not socialization outside of work) and she struggled every time, unable to eat, having salad/fish, eating a hard egg and looking weird. Sometimes she couldn't even keep herself from commenting the treifest dishes... LOL

It happens that for her it didn't affect her job. For some, it does.

Ftr mom also wasn't interested in socializing with Jews, she held outside of work was family time. BUT she is the first to say, above a certain salary, it's not really that way anymore often. And these last years? some big firms are into "team building", a day out with coworkers, sometimes even a week end. Can be done as a yid but very hard.

saw50st8

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 12:58 pm

I usually decline after work events because I have to pick up the kids.

I would just explain to your coworker that kosher is kind of complicated so you will have to decline this time, but are more than willing to go to a kosher restaurant in the future. Even if you don't really want to.

amother

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 2:23 pm

willow wrote:

Who said anything about having more of a relationship with them? She wondered if OP's husband would be able to act normal and friendly around non-Jews. If someone can't act with basic human decency around someone of another religion, there's something seriously wrong with them.

amother

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 4:37 pm

I work in a professional company and I believe that I act professionally towards my co-workers. I don't socialize with them out of the office though, I don't attend parties unless they are in the office (even if they are given in honor of a friend of mine). I don't go out for lunch or dinner outside of the office or attend their extra events such as boating. Everyone just seems to know and accept that I don't attend these things. Sometimes they even say to me "We are going out to lunch but we know you aren't going to come right?" and I say "Right" and we smile and say Bye. I think bec. I am consistent and NEVER go, it's less of an issue bec. everyone knows I won't go so I don't get asked/bothered about each event. People think I am different, know I am jewish, and I believe that they respect me a lot. Whenever someone curses they apologize and then everyone jokes that they can't do that bec. I am in the room (I am the only person they ever say that about).

amother

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 4:38 pm

I have been in this situation a number of times in the past. I have been able to decline due to my husband's work schedule and me needing to be available to my kids. At one point someone mentioned I may be coming across as anti social so now I preempt these situations by organizing a group lunch in a Kosher restaurant or arranging a pot luck in the cafeteria every few months. About once a year I arrange a Happy Hour in a Dave and Buster's type place so I can avoid the happy hours in bars. (I know there is nothing wrong with drinking diet coke or even a kosher alcoholic beverage in a bar. I just feel less awkward in a place where there are other things to do besides eat and drink.) Although the above won’t help you in this situation it may be something to consider in the future.

Mrs Bissli

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 7:21 pm

OP, how would you feel if, hypothetically, you were working with a bunch of jewish colleagues who are shomer mitzvoth and if you and your DH got invited for Shabbat meals/seuda? Would you still decline? Is that the fact your colleagues are non-Jewish that make you uncomfortable? Do you go out for Shabbat meals or socialize in general?

There is no right answer. But certainly if your work environment and colleagues expect socializing and networking outside of office, completely not participating would not win you anything. Don't use kashrut as an excuse not socializing, because there're many ways for coping with it. You're in a mixed work environment already, and sound like you do have good working relations. They know you do keep kosher, so inviting you means "we want to spend more time with you because we want to get to know you on a more personal level/because we enjoy spending time with you." It takes two sides to build good relations. What are you investing?

I actually prefer to go for a drink rather than a sit down meal, as I can always just have ginger ale or lemonade and leave early. You can invite your colleagues to your house (if you dread cooking, get a takeout or just invite them for a tea or for a drink and nibbles). You can tell your colleague you and your DH would join just for a drink or a dessert, ask them not to bother with food/drink and bring your own foods. You can all go out to a kosher restaurant.

Can anyone say Esther? R Yehoshua b.Chanania sharing a bowl of cholent with a roman emperor?

zaq

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 7:30 pm

If your job does not in and of itself require socializing with coworkers and clients, or if isocializing is not a major factor in consideration for promotions and the like, why not be honest and state that you appreciate the invitation but prefer to keep your professional and after-hours lives separate? It looks much worse if you are perennially making excuses. If socializing is a major factor is promotions and the like, then you need to consider whether this field, or this employer, is really for you. Sometimes for a frum Jew it's NOT possible to "have it all".

amother

Tue, Mar 11 2014, 8:27 pm

I have gone to non-kosher eateries and I just sit. They feel weird that I am watching them sit and they don't invite me anymore. Instead they try to have 'at work' stuff. Then, I bring my own food and something for everyone. (I do work in a very happy hour and eat out a lot profession.) The happy hours, they know I highly disapprove of drinking and don't bother me with that.

(B''h I do work with a bunch of girls and no men!)

After work hours, I tell them I have little dc and its not fair to dc to leave after a whole day of work. If they say babysitter and later hours, I say I'm not a night person and I go to sleep 830/9.

willow

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 6:14 am

amother wrote:

No she did not. She said her Dh is not used to being around secular people and Haskfically will be uncomfortable with the topics, the light flirty banter that goes on normally. He will be fine smiling being polite and making them comfortable it is his Haskafa comfort that she is looking out for.

amother

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 6:29 am

Mrs Bissli wrote:

I hardly ever go out for Shabbos meals. I find it easier to stay home and if anyone invites us, I usually scare them off with my kids' allergies. If people still persist, then I go. I think the part that bothers me about this situation is that a man called my house to invite me to his house. I would have no problem going to restaurant with coworkers assuming it was kosher.

DrMom

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 6:36 am

amother wrote:

He was inviting you to a dinner party at his home, where other people will be present, not a private 1-on-1 rendezvous in his bedroom. And he, a man, was hosting the party. Who else was supposed to invite you??

You are taking social codes from one community and incorrectly applying them to another situation where they simply do not apply.

Frumdoc

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 7:21 am

In such situations, I have said "I'm so sorry, you know the whole kosher thing makes it pretty much impossible to eat at anyone's house, but how about we have a group meal at a kosher restuarant", and sometimes we do, and sometimes we don't. Non Jewish colleagues are always interested in eating in kosher places, they feel it is a new ethnic experience. And I have offered to host, although small things, like coffee mornings or meetings with snacks.

Luckily my current peers are more interested in going out on Friday nights, so I have instant get out clause. But I do find being honest but regretful is taken at face value, whereas making a whole bunch of excuses can offend.

chaos

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:08 pm

Endless excuses are more offensive than an honest, one time explanation eg "I prefer to keep work life and personal life separate and I prefer not to socialize outside of work hours". Either be honest and upfront if you don't want to go, or find some way of limited socializing that you do feel comfortable with, or can at least tolerate, such as drinks (you can order ginger ale or coke), coffee, lunch at the nearby kosher restaurant, or dessert (you can bring something from home - and just coming for dessert limits the amount of time you have to spend).

dr. pepper

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:24 pm

Sorry, I didn't read through all the post so if I'm a repeat, I apologize.

Having had both parents work in secular environments my whole life, I've had amazing role models which I now hold to my own as I've since entered that environment.

1)I aim to make a kiddush Hashem whenever possible
2)I try to be consistent
3) I never get together outside of the work place-PERIOD! (although my father would sometimes eat out for business lunches-not socializing)

If they think I"m snobby- so be it. My values come first.

AFTR, I am the least bit snobby at work. I am fun, friendly, social and they like being around me. If fact, when I took some years off, they told me how much they missed my sunny personality when I returned.

But I have my boundaries, and I'm firm, polite, respectful, consistent and totally unapologetic. I agree with the posters that say that continuous excuses may cause more hurt feelings. Figure out a way to say your value in a polite and respectful way and move on.

FYI-I'm a big believer in thinking these things through before your get into the situation. For example, when I decided I wouldn't shake hands with men, I practiced in front of the mirror so I'd have my lines and facial expressions and feelings of awkwardness down pat Very Happy

Perhaps you may want to ask advice from someone your admire ie. rabbi, rebt. or relative you admire that works in a secular environment?

Ruchel

Wed, Mar 12 2014, 12:25 pm

I will repeat what an amother whose name I forgot, sorry, said: not all (or most...) women will be out to entice your middle aged Orthodox insulated husband. YKWIM. You know your office... of course... but if they're normal gals they most probably will say hi and then not socialize much with him, especially if from start he doesn't do the cheek kiss etc.

Not all offices do flirty banter. Many do boring, many do family talking, many do BORING WORK STUFF