Men Signing Off on How Their Wives Will Dress / School Reqts

Culturedpearls

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 1:50 am

marina wrote:

Her point is very valid: The values that serve as your dealbreakers say a lot about you.

This is true whether you are looking for a spouse, customers, students, new employees etc.

This school's dealbreakers are nail polish colors, denim, sheitel length, leggings, tight clothes. The school did not require students and parents to sign - as a precondition to admission - anything about bullying, ahavas yisroel lashon hara etc.

So even if the school has a robust middos curriculum, this very letter indicates that the school values not wearing denim or red nail polish more than the middos it hopes to teach.

Imagine that your son is going on a date and he has something that he feels so strongly about that he will actually refuse to date any girl unless she signs a contract promising to always _________. What is in that blank space? What is so important to him that he has singled it out this way? It doesn't mean that he only cares about that and nothing else- it means he cares so much about this issue that it is a deal breaker for him.

For this school, it was leggings.

No it's not. How would you exactly enforce "ahavas Yisroel " or "loshon hora".
Her point (whoever he/she is cause no one by that name exists in the Tzach list) is no point!
My daughters class had a bullying problem which over the course of a year with much hard work by the teachers was eradicated. Does that mean they put tznius on hold?
Are we picking & choosing or is she insinuating that all those who dress as per this schools request are nothing more than hypocritical egotists who have no Ahavas Yisroel , bad middos & are making ostentatious simchas?
If anything the writer comes across as someone who's intolerant.

amother

Slategray

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 2:02 am

debsey wrote:

The dealbreaker here is integrity. Do you live up to your word or not? If you sign up for a school, knowing their tznius values, and then cynically break those values, knowing that the school won't kick your kids out - sorry, that's my dealbreaker.

I don't like dishonesty and people who game the system. You're pointing to the leggings as though that's the issue here, when it's not. The issue here is treating a school like a designer label or an "it" handbag.

Some parents think they HAVE to sent to the "IT" school, the one with the "exclusive" label. So they buy a short sheitel for the interview, borrow their mother in law's clothing, whatever. Once their kids are accepted, they say "Hey, now I can do what I want." They know the school will not expel their children.

That's unfair. It's dishonest and unethical. Even in Lakewood, you have choices. Don't sign up for that "exclusive" school if you're not planning to follow their guidelines. That's just wrong.

Sorry, I know it's tempting to spin this as a feminist issue. It's not. It's simply this: Are you a (wo)man of your word, or not? Integrity.

Debsey... I don't hold it against you that you didn't read the 300+ comments on COL. However , many of the commenters said that BM looks the other way if you have $$,

What was that you were saying about integrity... Rolling Eyes

debsey

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 2:11 am

amother wrote:

B"H, Lakewood has enough "hock". I don't need to read other community's bazillion online comments! Wink

Again, just because someone posts "BM looks other way if you have money" doesn't mean that's true. It could be, they accept someone, she cynically breaks their rules, knowing that most schools won't go so far as to kick the kids out, and now people are saying 'the school looks the other way'.

Would you prefer the school punish the poor, innocent kid for the sake of her mother's hypocrisy? What were you saying about integrity?

Look, I have no skin in this game. I know very few people in crown heights. But I know how these things go in other communities. If you don't like the rules, don't send to the school. Period. End of story.

amother

Pink

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 2:52 am

Culturedpearls wrote:

You make a statement when you ask parents to sign off on tznius and nothing else. Why not have a list of kashrus standards that parents have to keep, even outside school?

Raisin

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 4:37 am

amother wrote:

Marina... Those comments on COL are the saddest thing I've seen in a long time..

Is that what Crown Heights is aspiring to now, to be a bunch of pathetic Lakewood wanabees...

I became frum through Chabad, 20 years ago. It was a beautiful thing..

Lubavitch remain true to yourself...

I agree something about this letter strikes me as not being in the spirit of chabad and the Rebbe. The Rebbe was very into accepting any Jewish child into Chabad institutions.

Honestly, I feel if Beis Menachem want to attract a certain type of family, there are other ways to do this then sending home tznius letters.

I agree about making ostentatious bar mitzvas. We just made a couple of bar mitzvos and we don't have a lot of money. BH I don't live in crown heights because if I lived in Crown Heights I would have been "required" to spend all sorts of money on ridiculous things because my son would have been embarrassed to not have these things when all his friends do. eg: Fancy gowns for me and my daughters (!!!) probably professional make up, up dos, the simcha itself - big dinner with live music and expensive photographer.

Just yesterday I saw a request on a crown heights fb group worded something like this: Need professional photographer to take photos for poor bar mitzva boy (at low cost) so he doesn't be embarrassed.

What is even worse is that people are making these fancy bar mitzvas when some crown heights schools are not able to pay their teachers through lack of funds.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 8:48 am

marina wrote:

The good news about chabad is that it is more open to debating the topic than other groups have been. Here's a letter posted in response to the new requirements: http://www.collive.com/show_ne.....gings

Quote:

Dear Rabbi Gurary,
Sincerely,

I think the letter is brilliant. I think she posted it in the appropriate forum, as the conversation there, I'm sure, is getting quite intense and involved.
I'm not going to report your post, especially because of the spirit in which it's intended, but honestly, I think that this is a discussion for the Lubavitch forum and posting it anywhere else violates the halachos of lashon hara by bashing a community. As such, as much as I want to read this thread - still a page to go - I think I have to stop watching it as it is not at all relevant for me.

amother

Amethyst

Thu, Jun 08 2017, 9:03 am

debsey wrote:

B"H, Lakewood has enough "hock". I don't need to read other community's bazillion online comments! Wink

The rules of the game were changed midway. You can tell new enrollees to not send to the school, but are all the currently enrolled students required to find new schools just because some arbitrary new rules were just put in place? I'm sure the kids will be delighted to be told that they have to go to new schools now, make new friends and so on....