Man serving wine to a Women that is not his wife

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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proudmom

Wed, Apr 11 2007, 6:20 pm

Allowed or not allowed? please give a source

greenfire

Wed, Apr 11 2007, 8:18 pm

I have no sources for you ... sorry ... but I would think it depends on the circumstances and individual situation ... like if it was done simply by a seder - seems fine ... if in a flirtatious manner probably wouldn't be okay ... if just passes a beer also okay ... whatever ... don't know ... just my thoughts

Mommy3.5

Wed, Apr 11 2007, 9:37 pm

My unmarried BIL is usually the Sar Hamashke on peasach. I would think Its no big deal, as it is only an issue between a husband and wife when niddah to begin with.

chocolate moose

Wed, Apr 11 2007, 9:40 pm

I'm not so sure. Because of that - and other resricitons - we stopped going to friends on Pesach.

mali

Thu, Apr 12 2007, 11:39 am

Not only wine. Anything other than water, that a person pours for another person of the opposite gender is problematic. You can pour it not in front of that person and then serve it, but you may not pour it right in front of him (for example, for a speaker - you can either pour water for him into his cup, or bring him a cup of juice/coke).

HindaRochel

Thu, Apr 12 2007, 3:24 pm

Mail, does that mean a host/hostess can't serve liquids to another person at the table even if their spouse is there? Doesn't the spouse being there make a difference? What about waiters in a restaurant? Is there a difference, according to what you know, about service staff filling cups?

and where were you on Sept 17..oops, sorry, wrong thread.(Kidding...I just looked at all the questions and thought it might be a bit intimidating.

Ruchel

Thu, Apr 12 2007, 6:56 pm

Yeah, what about waiters, hosts, and so on?

mali

Sat, May 19 2007, 7:15 pm

Correction: What I wrote above isn't a clear Halacha, but rather a recommendation. It's derived from the Halacha in the Rambam about the duties of a wife. He states that even if a wife has enough maids and sevants to do all the housework for her, still she should be the one to make her husband's bed, prepare water for him to wash his hands and face (not practiced in our days) and serve his food. These three actions are things that show affection, and are therefor not things she should have others doing instead of her. From here, the Rabbis point out that we should have the sensitivity not to do it for other men, or at least not to do so while they're watching us (for this reason we don't do these things in front of the husband when we're nidda).

So although we do serve our male guests, it would be advisable not to pour the drinks directly into their glasses and not to place the food directly in their plates.

Motek

Mon, May 21 2007, 9:13 am

see Rambam, Hilchos Isurei Bi'a, chapter 21, halacha 5:

"A man is not allowed to be served by a woman at all .. lest he come to improper thoughts. What service are we talking about? Washing his face, hands, and feet, making his bed, and pouring his wine [referring specifically to wine], for a woman does these things for her husband. And you don't ask b'shalom isha klal [how she's doing], not even through an intermediary."

HindaRochel

Mon, May 21 2007, 9:55 am

Okay, Motek, so I'm back to my original question; waiters! How does one deal with waiters? And a lot of men pour out kiddush wine into separte glasses for everyone at the table.

Motek

Mon, May 21 2007, 10:35 am

the halacha is about WOMEN pouring for men

HindaRochel

Mon, May 21 2007, 10:38 am

oops, my bad.

Waitresses then... women often serve men at various functions. I'm all for men taking over the job...men can serve the men women can serve the women, and maybe we won't get served last....

Mrs. XYZ

Mon, May 21 2007, 11:03 am

Is this also refering to family- sisters to brothers?

Isramom8

Wed, Aug 29 2007, 10:13 am

Mali, I think the issur refers to pouring alcoholic drinks and "mixed drinks", meaning drinks that are prepared according to the drinker's specific taste and instructions - even non-alcoholic, such as if the man specifies the exact way he would like his coffee made. The woman may make it but not serve it directly to him.

Are you a teacher, Mali? You seem to know a lot (I've been impressed with your posts!)

amother

Wed, Aug 29 2007, 1:15 pm

so how bout the other way around.......can a man pour wine for another woman?

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