How will stores handle non customers' use of bathrooms?

Mevater

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 1:40 pm

From now on, how will Starbucks and other stores, handle non customers' use of their bathrooms?

Starbucks arrests: Who gets to decide whether you’re a patron or a trespasser?

Public outrage over the arrest of two African American men at a downtown Starbucks sparked a corporate crisis that led the company to take the unprecedented step of announcing it would close more than 8,000 stores for an afternoon in May to train baristas on how to recognize their racial biases.

The scene of two black men in handcuffs being led out of the Philadelphia coffee shop by police last week delivered an uncomfortable reminder of the country’s racial disparities.

The incident illustrates a pervasive bias that can affect even the most mundane activities in U.S. public spaces — in this case, meeting someone for a coffee. The two men were waiting for a business associate when the manager called the police.

Nowhere else in Philadelphia are African Americans more disproportionately stopped by police than in the Center City neighborhood surrounding the Starbucks, two blocks from ritzy Rittenhouse Square, where rents in luxury apartments run as high as $10,000 a month.

While African Americans make up 3 percent of the area’s residents, they account for 67 percent of pedestrian police stops, according to a 2017 analysis by the American Civil Liberties Union, which has monitored racial disparity in Philadelphia policing for eight years. Most of those stopped were never charged.

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....pmm=1

SixOfWands

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 1:57 pm

You need to understand the culture of Starbucks.

If two people of any color had sat down at Butcher & Singer, a restaurant not far from the Starbucks in question, and failed to order for some time, there would have been no question that they could be asked to leave.

But that's not Starbucks.

Starbucks is known for -- and holds itself out as -- a place where people can hang for long periods without ordering. Its known as a place where people from out of town, or sales people, spend long periods working. Where students study. Where people have business meetings. I know someone who runs an ACT tutoring business out of Starbucks. There was at one point what appeared to be a chavrusa, learning Talmud once a week at the Starbucks near my office.

The person who filmed the incident stated that just days earlier, she'd been in that store for well over an hour without ordering. Either she, or someone else, stated that they sometimes bring outside beverages to the store, to drink while working there.

Allowing whites to hang our without purchasing, but not allowing the same privilege to blacks, was the issue.

leah233

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 2:04 pm

Plenty of stores have signs saying that the restroom is for paying customers only. A non paying customer who uses it would be a trespasser and a thief.

From my (mis?)understanding the men in this story were offered the option to either make a purchase or leave. They refused to do either.

marina

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 2:38 pm

leah233 wrote:

I have spent *weeks* of my life in starbucks without purchasing anything and no one has ever given me this choice.

Raisin

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 4:52 pm

Starbucks (in my city, not in the usa) have a particularly strict bathroom policy. The bathroom has a code lock. When you buy something, you get a code on the receipt that you can open the bathroom with. So I would never go into a starbucks to use the bathroom, or ask to use it before buying something. But I would think its fine to wait there for a friend without buying anything.

BTW this policy is unique to starbucks...other cafes and pubs are much less strict about bathrooms.

cnc

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 4:53 pm

Mevater wrote:

I think as a result of this bad publicity for Starbucks, Starbucks will either choose to

1- kick out a n y o n e using the bathroom without buying,

or

2- ignore a n y o n e using the bathroom without buying.

making sure to treat everyone the same.

Have you been following Starbucks response?

Miri7

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 5:31 pm

I’ve used the restroom before ordering at Starbucks a million times. And I’ve waited for long periods to order (and used the restroom) and no one has ever been anything but polite to me.

I’m a “nice white lady” - this is the privilege that I enjoy. No one questions if I should be there and be allowed to wait around and use the bathroom and WiFi without ordering.

This is a serious reminder of how different it is to walk around in the world without that kind of privilege.

Mevater

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 9:00 pm

cnc wrote:

Have you been following Starbucks response?

Afaik theyre closing Starbucks for a day, at tremendous loss, to educate employees on how to treat ALL customers the same.

That doesnt tell me if NO employees will be allowed to use the restroom without purchase or ALL employees will be allowed to use the restroom without purchase.

What have you heard that I havent?

Fox

Wed, Apr 18 2018, 9:42 pm

Is it just me? Because it would never occur to me to ask to use the restroom in a restaurant where I hadn't made a purchase. Maybe in a large store with restrooms clearly marked for the use of shoppers . . . but in a small storefront or restaurant? I would definitely buy something no matter what the official policy was.

I get that Starbucks has a unique culture, but I always interpreted it as meaning that you didn't have to keep up a steady stream of purchases in order to sit there for several hours -- not that you didn't have to purchase anything at all. I'm kind of shocked that people routinely do that.

imamother153

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 12:05 am

Fox wrote:

Have you never drove for more than half hour with little kids? What if your little child needs the restroom now and u see a Starbucks shop? Do you stand in line to make a purchase first? (I get that you may not have little kids at this point. I also understand that the story in question was with two adults. It’s a theoretical question.)

cookiecutter

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 8:17 am

Miri7 wrote:

This is not a response to your post (which I agree with) but your post made me think of this. There is a lot of stupidity in "white privilege" discussions. One is that being treated with common decency is not a privilege. It's a right. Painting it as a privilege conceptualizes all white people taints them with the original sin of being in the same "privileged" class, as opposed to describing what is really going on: white people have their rights violated less frequently. Of course, we should strive to violate everyone's rights less frequently, and in doing that, we might prioritize the rights of people who are more vulnerable to rights abuses. But merely being white does not make me Joe Arpaio.

SixOfWands

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 10:47 am

Fox wrote:

I don't get it either, but it is part of their corporate culture, and it seems to work for them.

OTOH, on the road, I not infrequently stop at fast food places to use the restroom, and don't buy anything.

southernbubby

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 10:53 am

SixOfWands wrote:

These fast food places and gas stations are franchises so if I see that it is a little guy who is trying to eek out a living from his little gas station (which I choose over fast food places), if I stop to use the rest room, I at least buy a snack or other item or buy some gas. Even a couple of gallons of gas makes it worth it for the gas station owner.

The only thing that we can really buy at a fast food place are beverages and that leads to more bathroom stops.

Fox

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 1:35 pm

southernbubby wrote:

The only thing that we can really buy at a fast food place are beverages and that leads to more bathroom stops.

I was just about to say this. I usually buy a Diet Coke, which leads to a circular problem!

As for kids, I had four out of five in a "litter" over just two years, and the baby just four years after that. So I was able to keep everyone home until they were civilized. That said, the baby is now 18, and I still won't take them anywhere without insisting that they all go to the bathroom before we leave. Spouses, too! Very Happy

The one who is really benefiting from all of this is Bryan Sharpe, who is known on Twitter as "Hotep Yoshke" (@vibehi). They're calling him a comedian, which is not really accurate. He's more of a motivational writer/speaker and proponent of Hotep ideas (a movement of African-American men based on self-accountability and maintaining the black nuclear family). I used to follow him, but all the tweets and re-tweets clogged up my feed, and he also was drifting into anti-Semitic territory at times.

Anyway, he went into a Starbucks and convinced the barista, on camera, to give him free coffee as "reparations." This earned him an interview on Fox and his 15 minutes of fame, which I suspect he'll be able to capitalize on brilliantly. I'm not linking to the video; I suspect a lot of people would find it too incindiery, but you can find it easily. Suffice it to say that he does not think that people marched in Selma to secure everyone's right to sit in a coffee shop all day without buying anything.