S/O where is the "I dont vax, AMA" thread???

amother

cornflower

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 2:50 pm

for realz. I have so many questions I just cant invest time in posting unless I can get some honest and open answers.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 2:53 pm

I used to not vax, will that help?

amother

Ecru

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 2:54 pm

No one wants to be attacked like that right now so they're not going to out themselves like that especially now

amother

Denim

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 4:31 pm

deleted

amother

Wine

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:05 pm

I don't vax, but I can't imagine I'd have anything to say that would be helpful to you or anyone else.

wow

Tue, Nov 06 2018, 5:29 pm

amother wrote:

I used to not vax, will that help?

I'm not the OP but I would love to hear what made you change your mind to start vaccinating?

amother

cornflower

Wed, Nov 07 2018, 10:36 am

I'm not looking to attack I just really truly want to hear your beliefs on this.
do you believe that the vax can harm your child?
do you believe that the "harm" outweighs the protection the vax offers?
is it true that you rely on all the other children vaccinated that they'll protect your children?

amother

Wine

Wed, Nov 07 2018, 10:42 am

amother wrote:

My beliefs really shouldn't matter to you. I made an intuitive decision and Hashem gave us intuition for a reason. I use it. But just because my intuition leads me to not vax, doesn't mean you shouldn't vax. If your intuition leads you to vax, go there.

I don't rely on other children being vaccinated, yada yada. It's an intuitive decision entirely.

Maybe

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 2:38 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQS--aNMz0 minute 8

amother

Plum

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 2:46 pm

amother wrote:

wait..what? You're saying the whole reason you don't vax is based on intuition????! Tell me your kids had a bad reaction to the shot. Tell me you've done your research and weighed the risks on either end. Tell me you've been convinced by an anti vax dr. that the harm outweighs the good. Tell me you believe in natural immunity and not the fake stuff. But please, please, please don't tell me your closing your eyes and relying on your heart when making this decision for your children. That is just unacceptable. ( coming from a cautious vaxxer)

Miri7

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 3:06 pm

amother wrote:

You may not realize it, but you very much do rely on others' kids being vaccinated. If they were not, and we didn't experience herd immunity to the point that we now do in the US (in most places most of the time), then we would still have a large volume of measles, polio, meningitis, etc, etc. Parents who live in the US (and haven't lived overseas) simply don't know what it's like to raise unvaccinated children admid regular occurrences of vaccine-preventable-illness.

A parent in the US now has the luxury to not vaccinate, or to follow one's "intuition" purely because of all the other parents who do vaccinate.

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 12:36 am

I don't Vax. I spend a lot of time reading and learning about the issues before my kids were born and the more I have learned over the next decade or so has only reinforced my decision. My kids deal with none of the chronic childhood issues I dealt with and I believe there's a connection. The reason I wouldn't open myself up to sparring with all the vaxxers is because it's difficult to encapsulate all the information that has led me to.my decision. Most parents who opt out of vaxxing started off with all the conventional knowledge all of you have. Duh. But we dug deeper. I doubt many of you are willing to put the time in. It's much easier to listen to your doctor, rabbanim, and hold fast to that rather than do your own learning. Immunology and vaccination is large and vast. And what if you're led to a decision that contradicts the rest of your community? No, easier to have blind, misapplied "emunah"in the conventional advice and view those who know differently as ignorant, dangerous, halacha flouters. So I won't debate the merits of the science of my choice. I will say that I don't feed my kids junkfood and supplement their diets with quality and expensive supplements like vitamin c, cod liver, green powder etc. It's called immune support. Preventative medicine. So if G-d forbid they get something, it will be mild. Like they're chicken pox which barely bothered them. Sure, it was inconvenient into be home for overlapping chicken pox for a bunch of kids but that's life. That's health. Theres no magic shot to keep you disease free. Yes, there's polio and worse but theres so much more to it than you know. Not that it's not a really risk to live in a world with deadly disease - but knowledge helps a lot. Even polio isn't as simple as you were told. Theres a real cost benefit to every vaccine. Spend as much time as non vaxxers do learning and thinking and you'll begin to see that. Sure, a few stories here and there are statistically insignificant or false but there are thousands of them. All eerily similar. New books exploring connections between the skyrocketing autoimmune and neurological issues kids today live with and the foreign substances that are being injected into their bloodstreams come out all the time. Read one. If just for a laugh. It's scientific to try and make connections. It's not scientific to stop searching and blindly follow authority. Yes, the big companies do have billions at stake if even a little bit doubt enters the minds of parents. You're a nice person, sure, but the world out there isn't. I can show you my stats and you can show me yours all night long but it won't change minds. My advice is to look at doctors who have realized the actual health risks of vaccines firsthand and their attempts to find answers in the system. The rabbanim said you have to vaccinate but they never said you can't read one of the books. We do love out loopholes! Come on, rebel a little and see what some of your fellow Jews, parents just like you, are filling their heads with. You can laugh about it on Facebook but its funny, I don't hear anyone debating the real, compelling info out there. Once you know there are people just like you making this choice, you can never say you didn't know. Decide what you will, but own it and take responsibility. Or at the very least, give your fellow Jews from.you schools, shuls etc some credit. They're not reckless, ignorant murderers. And if you've put in the hours and hours of genuine research into vaccines and are still following the recommended schedule to the letter, at least you can feel good you're thinking for yourself. And you probably have a slight clue as to where you're non vaxing friends are coming from. May we all stay healthy in this scary world and be guided by our Gd given minds and hearts as we were meant to. And stop feeding your kids laffy taffy's for goodness sake!

camp123

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 7:34 am

Just wondering where G_d comes into all of this. Have you done equal research in your obligation of bitachon and hishdadlus?

This is not something to take lightly. If you are right in your assessment then maybe you have protected your kids from the harm of the vaccine

And even if vaccines harm, you can prob rely on the fact that you followed doctors and rabbi's so I would question if anything could happen that hashem wouldn't have made happen anyway.

BUT, if you are wrong you may end up being guilty of murder if you contribute to destroy the herd immunity.

And you have an obligation to rely on the. majority of health care experts and rabbanim.

Stop believing you can know of you're right.

amother

Babypink

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 8:10 am

camp123 wrote:

Based on that idea, it would seem like doctors are second to god.
How much does one need to research a topic until they are considered knowledgeable enough to become second to god?
Is it perhaps 8 intense years? Is it the medical license? What about a pa? Do we not listen to a pa because they only had 2 years of schooling?

Many of the people involved in the debate spent a whole lot longer learning about the topic. (Many didn't) for the ones who did, at what point, do they become an expert?

At what point during someone's education, do we say that we should trust an expert and not play god?

According to your logic, can a doctor not treat their own child, because that would be an issue of hishtadlus vs. bitachon?

amother

Wine

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 8:22 am

When I was a kid we didn't have vaccines for chicken pox or flu or other stuff. The pox weren't fun. But we survived. We survived the flu, measles, mumps, and other outbreaks.

Having lived at a time before all these new vaccines were manufactured, I feel confident about continuing to live without them.

crust

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 8:35 am

amother wrote:

The dates dont add up.
To be old enough to be able to conduct reasonable research back when there were no vaccines and to still have to make choices about vaccines?
Or, am I missing something?

Raisin

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 9:05 am

amother wrote:

They don't routinely vaccinate for chicken pox where I live. Flu jab is recommended for at risk groups (elderly, pregnant, healthcare workers) but not for others. I took it for the first time this year in fact.

But I do all the other vaccinations. Chicken pox has much fewer serious side effects then other illnesses, so I assume thats why its not on the panel. My kids all had very mild cases bh but it was seriously inconvenient at times.

Crust, chicken pox vaccine is really quite new. I think it was a new vaccine when my first was born, 20 years ago.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 9:10 am

crust is right
MMR mumps, measles, rubella, predates generationally
people in their 60's are presumed to have been vaccinated in their childhood (in the US certainly)
only heard of people now in their 80's having gotten measles or mumps or scarlet fever or polio or the like as children
flu, chicken pox those vaccines which may be considered more "optional" came later

southernbubby

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 9:41 am

amother wrote:

crust is right
MMR mumps, measles, rubella, predates generationally
people in their 60's are presumed to have been vaccinated in their childhood (in the US certainly)
only heard of people now in their 80's having gotten measles or mumps or scarlet fever or polio or the like
flu, chicken pox those vaccines which may be considered more "optional" came later

I was born in 55 and got the measles vaccine in 67 or 68. Some of the earliest measles vaccines were ineffective but we are presumed to be immune due to disease being prevalent in society and we were considered to have been exposed.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 10:26 am

southernbubby wrote:

My mother was born in '55 too, and she had the measles as a child. She absolutely vaccinated all of us against measles. She had scarlet fever too, but there's no vaccine for that...

I had chicken pox as a child. I give my kids the varicella vaccine. It's not inconceivable that someone who experienced these diseases were able to give their children the vaccines.