|
|
|
|
|
Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
ora_43
|
Sun, Dec 08 2019, 3:52 pm
amother [ Apricot ] wrote: | The majority of Arabs in the world follow which religion? |
This is literally a thread about the importance of distinguishing between "the majority" and "all."
And the world is a big place. In the Americas, most Arabs are Christian.
Quote: | Again, a Muslim is a moderate until he's not, and the change is not readily apparent. |
A Jew is a moderate until he's not.
A Christian is a moderate until he's not.
etc.
Of course you can't magically know if an Arab Muslim is a fundamentalist terrorist. Just like you can't know if a white man is a neo-Nazi or if any random person is a murderer just by looking at them.
The important part is that odds are that they aren't an extremist and don't want to kill you.
I'm not saying people who are afraid are evil. Fear is natural. And some communities have been through a lot. At some point, protecting yourself is more important than giving every stranger the benefit of the doubt.
But it's important to recognize that for what it is - racism and racial profiling, just as much in this case as any other.
| |
|
Back to top |
8
|
amother
Pearl
|
Sun, Dec 08 2019, 3:53 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote: | im chassidish and I think most people to the left ate racist to the jews on the right. cv not to non jews. |
Do you have any biases towards Jews on the left? Because your post reveals some.
| |
|
Back to top |
6
|
#BestBubby
|
Sun, Dec 08 2019, 4:17 pm
ora_43 wrote: | A Jew is a moderate until he's not.
A Christian is a moderate until he's not.
etc.
Of course you can't magically know if an Arab Muslim is a fundamentalist terrorist. Just like you can't know if a white man is a neo-Nazi or if any random person is a murderer just by looking at them.
The important part is that odds are that they aren't an extremist and don't want to kill you.
I'm not saying people who are afraid are evil. Fear is natural. And some communities have been through a lot. At some point, protecting yourself is more important than giving every stranger the benefit of the doubt.
But it's important to recognize that for what it is - racism and racial profiling, just as much in this case as any other. |
When was the last time a Jew or Christian committed terrorism? Hijacked planes, blew up buildings or subways? Beheaded people?
Stop denying the Truth because of Political Correctness!
| |
|
Back to top |
7
|
amother
Olive
|
Sun, Dec 08 2019, 5:36 pm
amother [ Lilac ] wrote: | Everyone ask yourself a question:
If you have a repairman come to fix your fridge, does it make any difference to you if he's white, black, or Arab?
Honest answer to yourself. You don't have to answer the question publicly. |
Acting based on your experience or knowledge of tensions between people, is not racist. You are not inherently against him being black white or wtvr.
Think, if u knew for sure he is safe, would you care if the repairman was black/white, etc?
| |
|
Back to top |
3
|
Pikachu
|
Sun, Dec 08 2019, 5:40 pm
I think just about everyone on this thread needs to check out the petition on Change.org I just saw and signed. Like, everyone. Come on, guys, we need to stop this fighting.
http://chng.it/48LhYfwsqm
| |
|
Back to top |
1
|
Ravenclaw
|
Sun, Dec 08 2019, 9:44 pm
ora_43 wrote: | But we have to be aware that this natural brain tendency can do more harm than good.
Our brains often tend to sacrifice long-term gain for short-term gain. Craving fatty foods that we know are bad for us, being more scared of a dark alleyway than global warming... And developing fear of "the other" quickly, even though long-term that's just as likely to put us in danger as keep us safe.
And our brains tend not to understand statistics in a real, intuitive way. Meaning like - we see that 50% of the people from a certain group who we meet act a certain way, and jump to "that's how Those People act," when really, the people we meet aren't even slightly representative of the group as a whole.
(or in other words - who are you more likely to interact with, an elderly Muslim man who loves all mankind and values kindness above all, a three-year-old Muslim girl, or a 24-year-old Muslim extremist who hates Jews? Obviously the third, by a factor of about a hundred - he's the one who'll go out of his way to find Jews to be unpleasant to. Nobody goes out of their way to say "hey, just wanted to let you know I have zero problem with your ethnic or religious background.")
It's all natural, but natural doesn't mean good. Illiteracy is also natural, learning disorders are natural, phobias are natural, PTSD is natural. |
I want to like this 100 times.
| |
|
Back to top |
4
|
amother
Lilac
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 3:00 am
#BestBubby wrote: | When was the last time a Jew or Christian committed terrorism? Hijacked planes, blew up buildings or subways? Beheaded people?
Stop denying the Truth because of Political Correctness! |
Simple yes or no question:
Do you believe the majority of Muslims pose a physical threat to you?
| |
|
Back to top |
5
|
southernbubby
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 8:00 am
I often take my grandchildren to public playgrounds. Some of them will readily play with children of other races but some will avoid those children and it's not always related to their age.
Sometimes the friendliness of the other children win out and the grandchildren include them but often, because the kids are not in school with non-Jews, they shrink back from any sort of involvement and wait for other cheder kids to show up.
What I am trying to say is that even at a young age and even though they could have more fun if they played together, they often don't see it as a possibility; probably due to the lack of exposure and contact with kids of other races.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
|
causemommysaid
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 9:01 am
I really thing EVERYONE is racist. We all have our preconceived notions of others whether we admit it or not. Every single person has personal bias against others.
We all need to work on ourselves and the biggest solution to racism is exposure to those who we are racist against.
| |
|
Back to top |
4
|
amother
Dodgerblue
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 9:38 am
causemommysaid wrote: | I really thing EVERYONE is racist. We all have our preconceived notions of others whether we admit it or not. Every single person has personal bias against others.
We all need to work on ourselves and the biggest solution to racism is exposure to those who we are racist against. |
I think it is quite the opposite. It is because I lived among certain ethnic groups (particularly one) that I came to dislike them.
Go ahead and throw rotten tomatoes at me but in my experience the people who were so self righteous about frum people disliking a certain group never lived in a neighborhood where that group was the majority and never lived through the experience of that group taking over their neighborhood.
The people who did were far more understanding.
Maybe everyone should expose themselves to that experience before they complain about racism in the frum world.
| |
|
Back to top |
3
|
ora_43
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:01 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | I think it is quite the opposite. It is because I lived among certain ethnic groups (particularly one) that I came to dislike them.
Go ahead and throw rotten tomatoes at me but in my experience the people who were so self righteous about frum people disliking a certain group never lived in a neighborhood where that group was the majority and never lived through the experience of that group taking over their neighborhood. |
I've lived in a mostly-immigrant neighborhood with more than its share of problems.
I can definitely understand developing a healthy dislike for certain aspects of other cultures.
But despite that experience, I still think this is mostly about brains being weird, and that it can be killed with awareness. As long as I stay aware that my natural tendency is to notice (say) the Arab neighbor who's blasting rap music out his window and yelling at people on the street much more than I notice the Arab neighbor who's quietly walking to work - and that I'm not seeing the Arab doctor or Arab professor at all, because they can both afford to live in way nicer neighborhoods - I can have unpleasant experiences without coming to wrong conclusions about all of Arab society.
| |
|
Back to top |
0
|
Ravenclaw
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:13 am
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote: | I think it is quite the opposite. It is because I lived among certain ethnic groups (particularly one) that I came to dislike them.
Go ahead and throw rotten tomatoes at me but in my experience the people who were so self righteous about frum people disliking a certain group never lived in a neighborhood where that group was the majority and never lived through the experience of that group taking over their neighborhood.
The people who did were far more understanding.
Maybe everyone should expose themselves to that experience before they complain about racism in the frum world. |
This could totally be a post on Rise Up Ocean County. Word for word.
| |
|
Back to top |
6
|
amother
Purple
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:22 am
Ravenclaw wrote: | This could totally be a post on Rise Up Ocean County. Word for word. |
No, bc jews in Ocean County don't mug or beat people up as multiple family members of mine have been over the year by their neighbors.
I'm not that amother but I agree with her
| |
|
Back to top |
2
|
zaq
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:28 am
Yes, I do believe that most people are racist at least to some extent. Some rabidly and viciously so, some mildly and discreetly so. I don’t see how anyone can say with a straight face that yelling racial slurs at an opposing team is not racist. “Hey you (insert racial epithet here) is very different from “Hey you (insert profane or obscene epithet here).” Insulting someone based on race is racist; based on s@x is s@xist; based on age is ageist (and based on bigamy is bigamist? Maybe not.)
If your immediate reaction to seeing a member of a different race, regardless of that person’s activity, occupation or mode of dress, is dislike, distrust, or fear, that’s racist. Your reaction may be even be justified: if your family on a distant planet was just annihilated by a mob of Klingons and 90% of the all the recent shootings on your planet were perpetrated by Klingons, you could be forgiven for reacting with fear and loathing when you see a Klingon walking down the street or when you must travel to a planet populated mainly by Klingons. But you would still be racist.
| |
|
Back to top |
5
|
amother
Dodgerblue
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 10:31 am
Ravenclaw wrote: | This could totally be a post on Rise Up Ocean County. Word for word. |
And if it could does it make what I'm saying not true? My experiences not real?
| |
|
Back to top |
1
|
Fox
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 12:54 pm
Going back to the original post, I think we're missing a couple of huge contextual issues.
The first is that men, unlike women, create bonds by testing one another. In some cultures and eras, that meant raising a sword. Exchanging insults, though, is one of the ways men bond in general, and one of the key ways British men bond. And British athletes and their supporters do this even more than most.
No characteristic is off the table in these insults, including race, religion, social class, ethnic or cultural heritage, s-xual orientation, or even, as noted, hair color. I'm personally willing to bet that 100 percent of footballers have heard these kinds of insults, but only 25 percent thought they were problematic in the least.
I first read about this in a wonderful book by Sarah Lyall, called The Anglo Files. But I now deal with two British men on a semi-weekly basis, and I see this in action all the time. If some task I complete is adequate but unspectacular, I'll get a pro forma, "Well done!" But if I do a really brilliant job, I'll get, "You delight me, you verbose old Jewess." To which I'll reply, "Of course I do, you idol-worshipping ring-snatcher."
Having met insult with insult (and upped the ante, even) rather than with offense, I've established that I can hold my own and must be respected.
Women, of course, don't bond this way; we do it through empathy and sharing personal information. I'm simply far from certain that these culturally-dependent rituals reveal much about the inner opinions and feelings people have regarding racial, religious, or other differences.
Not to mention the fact that currently, footballers' experience with discrimination is pretty far down on the list of problems in the U.K.
| |
|
Back to top |
4
|
#BestBubby
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 1:01 pm
amother [ Lilac ] wrote: | Simple yes or no question:
Do you believe the majority of Muslims pose a physical threat to you? |
No, the majority of muslims are not a threat to me.
But I don't know if THIS young Muslim Male is part of the majority or minority.
So I am afraid.
| |
|
Back to top |
2
|
amother
Lilac
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 1:09 pm
#BestBubby wrote: | No, the majority of muslims are not a threat to me.
But I don't know if THIS young Muslim Male is part of the majority or minority.
So I am afraid. |
Above=Prejudice
Smile. You're a human.
| |
|
Back to top |
3
|
southernbubby
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 1:12 pm
Fox wrote: | Going back to the original post, I think we're missing a couple of huge contextual issues.
The first is that men, unlike women, create bonds by testing one another. In some cultures and eras, that meant raising a sword. Exchanging insults, though, is one of the ways men bond in general, and one of the key ways British men bond. And British athletes and their supporters do this even more than most.
No characteristic is off the table in these insults, including race, religion, social class, ethnic or cultural heritage, s-xual orientation, or even, as noted, hair color. I'm personally willing to bet that 100 percent of footballers have heard these kinds of insults, but only 25 percent thought they were problematic in the least.
I first read about this in a wonderful book by Sarah Lyall, called The Anglo Files. But I now deal with two British men on a semi-weekly basis, and I see this in action all the time. If some task I complete is adequate but unspectacular, I'll get a pro forma, "Well done!" But if I do a really brilliant job, I'll get, "You delight me, you verbose old Jewess." To which I'll reply, "Of course I do, you idol-worshipping ring-snatcher."
Having met insult with insult (and upped the ante, even) rather than with offense, I've established that I can hold my own and must be respected.
Women, of course, don't bond this way; we do it through empathy and sharing personal information. I'm simply far from certain that these culturally-dependent rituals reveal much about the inner opinions and feelings people have regarding racial, religious, or other differences.
Not to mention the fact that currently, footballers' experience with discrimination is pretty far down on the list of problems in the U.K. |
It reminds me of when I flew alone on a plane with 3 young grandchildren. At the departing gate, I was struggling to get them fed and settled and the kindly Muslim woman next to me related and found the whole thing humorous and kept nudging me and laughing. Because one of the children was a boy, our religion was obvious but everyone can appreciate the difficulty of traveling alone with kids and she was very friendly.
| |
|
Back to top |
2
|
amother
Cerise
|
Mon, Dec 09 2019, 1:24 pm
#BestBubby wrote: | When was the last time a Jew or Christian committed terrorism? Hijacked planes, blew up buildings or subways? Beheaded people?
Stop denying the Truth because of Political Correctness! |
Dylann Roof ring a bell? Stephen Paddock? Robert Gregory Bowers? John Timothy Earnest? Devin Patrick Kelley? Nikolas Cruz?
| |
|
Back to top |
3
|
Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Stage 4 c*ncer. Need 40 people to say perek 69
|
57 |
Sun, Apr 14 2024, 8:41 pm |
|
|
What do you think of this chicken recipe for Seder?
|
11 |
Sun, Apr 14 2024, 11:59 am |
|
|
Do people have pets in your communities?
|
50 |
Tue, Apr 09 2024, 11:04 pm |
|
|
I think I got addicted to the Medela medical grade pump
|
2 |
Tue, Apr 09 2024, 8:08 pm |
|
|
Mint is shutting down :( What are people going to use instea
|
20 |
Mon, Apr 08 2024, 1:36 am |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
| |
|
|
|
|
|