What would you have done?

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 12:23 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

This week, I invited a single guy that lives in our neighborhood for the Shabbos lunch. At first he told us that he already had a place and declined the offer. Then he contacted me in Friday morning that his host has the flu and if he could come to us instead and I told him we’d gladly have him join us. About an hour to Shabbos he contacted us again, that his roommate’s plans also fell through and if he too could join. I was happy to have them both.
Shul usually ends around 11:30 and then there is a kiddish. So my DH told him that we plan on starting the meal between 12:15-12:30. This would give them enough time to stay at the shul kiddush if they wanted to and enough time to walk. (They live two blocks away from us).
12:30 came and they still didn’t show up. At 12:45 I told my DH that we are all hungry and that if they are not here by 1:00 we should start without them. 1:00 came and there was still no sign of them. We were hesitating whether I should send one of my teens to their apartment to see if everything was ok. We didn’t know if that would make them feel bad or not. Anyway, my 14 yr old decided to go check. At 1:30 they showed up to our house. One of the guys showed up holding two 20 oz hot cups, one with tea and 1 with coffee. They had just both rolled out of bed.
I tried very hard not to judge and to let it go. I did feel bad for my DH who badly needed a Shabbos nap and had to forgo his nap because our Seuda started and ended much later than usual. But my question was, what would you have done? Would you have waited until they showed up? Would you have started the time you said the seuda was called for? Would you have gone to their apartment to see where they were? Would you have commented on their lateness? Just curious, because I had no idea what the proper way of handling such a situation is. Thanks for your input.

I don’t think you’re doing them any favors letting them off the hook for their atrocious lack of manners, mentshlichkeit, and social graces. I think people like that need to be told how inappropriate and inconsiderate their behavior is (of course in a polite way) because otherwise they will continue to treat people this way and eventually it will hurt them (people will stop inviting, their future spouse will be offended, etc). You’d be doing a chessed by teaching them that that is not proper behavior, and if for some GOOD reason (which wasn’t the case this time) they show up so late, a heartfelt apology is in order at the very minimum.

singleagain

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 12:54 pm

teachkids wrote:

I always give a range time of when to come because if you give a single time they don't know whether to come before or after that, and then wait 15 minutes after the later time. Then we start. There's kiddush and matzah if anyone needs. No reason you should be expected to wait- you could think something happened and they're not coming.

My folks do this too. They typically say something like "cocktail hour* is 1130. And lunch is between 12-1230"

*Cocktail hour isn't not always included. Just a pattern I've noticed with certain guests/joke

teachkids

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 1:14 pm

singleagain wrote:

Nope, no cocktail hour here. Generally something like "we get home from shul around 11 and eat around 11:30" or simply "we start between 11 and 11:30.". (Yes, we live in a place where shuls end early) Then they know to aim to get here in that range. If they come before I'm ready, they chill on the couch, and if I'm ready before they come it's ok because it's still early.

zaq

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 1:16 pm

Years ago I wound have waited till one. After some experiences like yours, I wait 15 minutes and then start. The latecomers can join the meal when and if they arrive. When you wait for latecomers, you penalize those who made it their business to show up on time and reward the latecomers. The rudesbies won’t appreciate your forbearance and polite people will feel bad that everyone was held up because of them.

Those two would be stricken off my invitation list. As for the guy who is engaged, his kallah may be just as bad as he is, in which case they’re a perfect match.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 1:20 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I just can't fathom how people can reach adulthood and not have any manners or consideration at all. Were these guys raised by wolves?

I became frum around mostly MO and Yeshivish types, who tend to eat right on time (or else their kids will start climbing the walls.)

Because of my health, I never know how I will feel from one day to the next. I always tell my hosts "If I am more than 15 minutes late, then I'm not coming. Please don't wait up for me." I make an effort to be right on time or a few minutes early if I feel up to having the meal, so everyone knows that this is my pattern.

I can raise my kids, but I can't control them. Especially once they reach a certain age, they can make choices that might be very painful for me, but that's their own bechira.

amother

Brunette

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 8:07 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

I have a son like this and I can see him doing this, but he would apologize. He knows he’s in the wrong and that’s why he doesn’t like going to people for shabbos lunch. He wouldn’t have any problem with someone saying something to him. He’s very easy going and not much bothers him.

The bolded, really????

amother

Olive

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 10:30 am

I would wait a half hour- until 1- then start. If the person feels awkward coming in while we already eating the main dish, that's kind of too bad.

My husband is actually the type of guy to linger after kiddush and shmooze. He sometimes comes home a full half hour to an hour after davening is over. When we are eating at my in laws he says as a general rule they should start without him if hes not back, but they never do. They would rather wait for him. I always feel bad when this happens. But I guess its different because they know he is coming later (12:30 ish) and they choose to wait.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jan 06 2020, 10:51 am

amother [ Olive ] wrote:

If he knows they are waiting he should make sure to be back on time