Dr Ditchek-Clear cases of reinfection in frum comm,new cases

amother

Mistyrose

Fri, Jul 10 2020, 10:37 am

Disclaimer: I"m hearing impaired so I had to ask my husband to recap this video.

It seems that there is a lot of black and white thinking in the reactions to the video.

Covid is over V we're all doomed.

If everyone were to social distance - ie keep away from each other, and also wear their masks, life can go on. Stores can stay open, camps and schools can operate, we can make it work with some adjustments. He said himself that the positive case at his shul didn't result in spread because of the masks and distance. He didn't say that they needed to close down the shul!

I can't comment on his methods or on his talking style - and perhaps I shouldn't comment at all having not actually heard him (just got the summary).
But honestly, I don't see how this changes anything - just keep up the simple precautions that will make a difference so we can avoid a second wave.
Your kids will also be fine in masks if you don't give them an attitude.

Why is everyone up in arms here?

amother

Coral

Fri, Jul 10 2020, 2:21 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

First of all, I'm not brilliant, but I will tell you what I think, based on my graduate degree in this area.

1) No facebook post should ever be taken as scientific fact.

2) His "facts" and evidence" is not presented, for HIPAA reasons, obviously. But for everyone saying that he's saying "facts" - he's saying things he's seen. I know it sounds like semantics, and it is, but it's different. Facts include de-identified patient samples, test origins, antibody levels, and which laboratories he's using.

3) He says that now some people "are testing positive". However, he doesn't actually say what prompted the new tests. Is he just following these patients? What's concerning is that he said that were initially positive, then they tested "negative for weeks", then they tested positive. How many tests is he doing on a single person, and why? Is he doing his own research? This needs more background.

Also - he doesn't describe any of the symptoms that warranted re-testing. Is he just performing this on anyone with a cough? Are the symptoms as severe as before?

4) OH. Now I see. He bought a bunch of mass-marketed rapid test kits, and are doing it in his own office using the tentatively EU-approved Sofia kit. THIS IS PROBLEMATIC. No test kits have been FDA approved. Some of them are EU approved - there's a difference. Furthermore, even without false positive for Sofia test kits, a kit is only as good as your personnel. How many times did he repeat the test? Is the same person performing all the tests in his office? Is it a nurse performing the test, or a CLS? Is someone performing positive and negative controls alongside each test kit? Does he have a laboratory? Is it sterile? How often is the operator changing PPE? Is it performed in a hood? Is it just on the counter? What?

5) Can there be re-infection? Maybe. The jury is still out on that one. Most scientists don't think so. If there was a possibility for mass re-infection, then you wouldn't see the kind of numbers you're seeing in NY and in already exposed areas. It's just incongruent data. You might have an outlier, but then you have to evaluate each outlier on a case by case example.

Again, I hear that doctors don't want people flinging off their masks and kissing hordes of strangers in public. But the constant insistence on flooding the public with terrifying tales of doom has not been effective for long-term public health strategy. It creates anxiety, fear, anger, resentment, chaos, and eventual non-compliance.

Are you a doctor? And if so, of a higher caliber than he is? If not, I’ll believe him, thank you very much.

amother

Coral

Fri, Jul 10 2020, 2:23 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I agree with this, and I will add one thing:

Dr. Ditchek extrapolated from the fact that he had two positive re-infections that that will cause a second wave. This is PURE speculation and is not based on scientific fact at all.

Two people is a very small number to be extrapolating any data at all from, and from a scientific viewpoint it's laughable.

Maybe the tests were faulty. Maybe some people can get it twice. (I know a few people who got the chicken pox twice). Does that translate that EVERYONE can get it twice? Maybe. Probably not. We just don't know.

I think this video was being way too alarmist.

I think some people are in sever denial and choose to believe what they want to believe

Cheiny

Fri, Jul 10 2020, 2:26 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

An extremely active, fit, healthy 30 year old in my parents community had it pesach time. He's a young father and now has it again ( a very mild case both times), only this time it caused a brain bleed and he had to undergo emergency surgery yesterday. The next ten days are critical for him.

Covid itself isn't scary. Its the blood clots and complications that come with it. Now they're saying it can cause brain damage as well. His story was a real wake up call for me.

Name for Tehillim?

amother

Coral

Fri, Jul 10 2020, 2:28 pm

amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote:

Because u have people here who had enough, don’t want to be bothered any more with sd, and masks, want their Kids out of the house, it’s just not convenient for them so they choose to believe it’s over and they can do whatever they want and to heck with the older people and immune compromised and those at risk.

honey bunny

Fri, Jul 10 2020, 3:11 pm

A message from the man who was reinfected. The one who the Dr is speaking of.
From Jack Ruby Bibi:
As many of you know our family has been through a terrible trauma as my mother has been very sick for months .
Today I was discovered to have a new Coronavirus infection. I had so many antibodies in the past few months that I donated plasma two times (over 2 liters of plasma)!
I had several negative Coronavirus swabs in the last two months since being sick the first time.
There are now many new cases in our community and growing.
I am asking everybody in the Zechut of my mother to please take this seriously,
Unfortunately many in our community are denying the new cases. There is no denying the truth. We must be carful and act now to save lives.
Thank you,
Jack Ruby Bibi

Last edited by honey bunny on Fri, Jul 10 2020, 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

Bleemee

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 11:38 pm

Here’s a response from Rabbi Dr. Glatt at around 17 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdCzqrjJVlI

(From his bio: Dr. Glatt is the Chair of the Department of Medicine at Mount Sinai South Nassau. He also serves as the Chief of Infectious Diseases and is the Hospital’s Epidemiologist, and is in charge of our Infectious Diseases Society of America Designated Center of Excellence in Antimicrobial Stewardship. Previously, he has held senior academic and administrative positions, including being the President and CEO and the Chief Medical Officer, at other major institutions...)

imorethanamother

Mon, Jul 13 2020, 11:54 pm

Bleemee wrote:

For those with short attention spans, he says that the second-time infection has not been proven at this time. And not one other infectious disease physician has seen a second-case infection in someone that has previously had covid.

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jul 14 2020, 12:11 am

imorethanamother wrote:

But for those who actually listened he said it's being studied and here isn't saying it can't happen it just hasn't been confirmed yet. I don't know nor care if it's reinfection or reawakening in same person from old infection but I know of a few cases in Brooklyn where the person was better for many many weeks and then had symptoms again and was sick again and tested positive again. So regardless if it's a reinfection or old infection waking up the person is fighting something again and his own antibodies were not being effective to prevent it from happening. And in one case one person had most likely infected another person in their family when they were sick the second time.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jul 14 2020, 10:51 am

Here is another article from a DC doctor who also saw a patient go from positive, negative and back to positive and thinks it was a second infection. The article has a link to a podcast with Dr. Griffin who also had two cases of what he thinks were second infections, and the second infection was worse than the first. In the podcast he also mentions that he knows a pulmonologist who seems to have several unconfirmed cases of reinfection. The pulmonologist didn't retest for covid because he thought it was impossible to get covid twice. It's possible that all those patients don't have covid, just some other infection that causes bilateral pneumonia, but it is also possible that second infections are flying under the radar because most people don't think they are possible.

There is so much we don't know. Maybe having antibodies is protective. Maybe not. In dengue fever subsequent exposures result in more severe disease davka because of antibodies (antibody dependent enhancement).