How do people do it?

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Aug 21 2020, 3:09 pm

I agree with others that you could probably cut down on your groceries without too much trouble. Are you buying a lot of meat & fish? Also, $175/month seems high for household goods. Could you cut back on disposable use? $500/month also seems relatively high for 2 cars. Can you buy cheaper ones? Finish paying them off so you can buy cheaper insurance? And it looks like your miscellaneous category contains some less frequent but larger expenses such as travel, car repairs, medical, etc. Maybe try to list those out on a per year basis divide by month so you know where all that money is going. Sometimes I find an annual budget more helpful than a monthly one for that reason.

Also, I just wanted to chime in that $50 per month for wine for shabbos seems eminently reasonable. Assuming you go through one bottle per shabbos*, that’s only about $12.50 per bottle, which is on the low end. Not the absolute lowest you can find, but definitely very much on the low end for kosher wine.

*and if you want red wine for shabbos and don’t drink the super sweet stuff, then it won’t really be goodd by the next week even if you don’t finish the bottle.

amother

Blonde

Fri, Aug 21 2020, 3:12 pm

op, im like you and earn basically the same after taxes. but,we are a family of 6 and we are struggling. we do get tax refund every year from our tax credit(with chidren you get credit) but we use it to pay our tuition.

I cant afford most things that I see ppl spending on, so I dont understand how ppl. do it.
I do agree spending on healthy food costs a lot, so im not surprised it costs $700. im struggling to buy healthy food for my kids as healthy food is so expensive, and majority of my budget goes towards tuition/babysitting.

in terms of misc expenses, yes, I agree there are always unexpected repairs/dental/fees etc. for me, the school charges registration fees(besides for monthly tuition), school supplies, lice check etc and there are car registration fees, oil changes etc.

I dont understand how others do it unless maybe they are not paying as much tuition(but everything is from hashem, so He decided this).I dont own a home, and im also wondering how ppl manage....but I do know some ppl whose parents gave downpayment and continue to give money to help them....

the most surprising thing to me is im wondering how ppl manage on the very low salaries that ppl need to have in order to be eligible for food stamps or free lunch...how do they pay everything? and, these are ppl who always seem to have the frum expensive clothes that I cant afford...(im not implying that ppl are doing wrong, but I want to know what im not doing wrong...so I can afford everything on a larger salary...but I think schools will charge more to higher salaried families....so the time to figure out how to save is now...

notshanarishona

Fri, Aug 21 2020, 3:18 pm

Why are you spending $500 a month on cars? Are you leasing expensive models?
Why do you have a separate miscellaneous budget that doesn’t include beauty, date night, Clothing, cleaning lady, gas, you seem to be spending a lot on that. Look at where that money is going.
$700 a month is a lot for food for a couple. We spend that as a family of 4 and eat lots of produce but we buy whats on sale, etc.
$250 a month for gas would mean with current gas prices you are filling up at least twice a week! That is extreme. Even if you drive 20-30 miles a day it shouldn’t go that fast.

BetsyTacy

Fri, Aug 21 2020, 3:26 pm

To save money when you don't "need" to, you have to feel passionately about it. It is the pay yourself first idea. First put the money in savings--it is on par with health insurance, rent, and maaser as a non negotiable on your list. Lots of the rest of your list is negoitable. Yes, you need to eat food and have transport etc. etc. but as many people have said, many (most) will have some luxuries, but do you "need" all the luxuries you are currently enjoying?

You and your husband need to decide this together. If next month you put $600-$700 into untouchable except for major emergencies (and I mean really major), can you then live off the rest? Date nights can be cheaper if you need them to be, for example.With your circumstances it seems that it just depends what level of priority savings is to (both of) you.

amother

Pewter

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 8:00 pm

OP sounds like she not only has a grip on her spending, she has it in an iron fist if she can attribute her expenses down to cellophane and the $12 bottle of wine per shabbos she is spending. To any posters saying she is living the “high life” I’m having trouble scraping my jaw off the floor here - what exactly constitutes high living here? Washing her own lettuce (!!) instead of eating $1 macaroni?! Using a car instead of hitching rides? Spending on cellophane? This girl sounds like a budgeting queen to me.

amother

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 8:03 pm

So about the cars, if you think 500 including car, insurance, and our ez pass for 2 cars is a lot, explain me how?! One is a VERY old car and the other is a very cheap and modest lease. We are both in our 20s and insurance is not cheap! In addition, our old car requires constant maintenance.
About gas, dh travels a lot for work. Much more than 20-30 min a day. So yes, we fill up often more than twice a week.
Definitely rethinking groceries. We allot 700 toward groceries but don’t usually get there so I do think we can make that less. If we host guest for a shabbos meal though, we can reach that number but because of finances we don’t do that often.
Honestly, many of these categories don’t reach their allotted amount such as beauty, date night, etc. But on the once a year that we go out to a restaurant I use our whole months date night budget for that.

Lots of you are saying we live really nicely. It sure doesn’t feel like it sometimes! I’m the penny pincher in a group of friends. They want to go out somewhere and I’m finding excuses not to. They Get regular manicures, go to broadway shows, eat out occasionally which we do none of. What are the things that are living nicely in that budget? Trying to genuinely understand. A birthday card and papergoods? Shoe inserts? I am trying to cut down on plastic ware because that’s been adding up.

I do think that we are also in the unlucky category of making too much money on the books for Medicaid and paying a lot in taxes. I have friends that make similar digits off the books so they qualify for Jersey care (health insurance is very expensive!) and don’t pay half of what we do in taxes so thats a lot of money.

amother

Jade

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 8:26 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

No ones saying she should be buying macaroni instead of lettuce but if that’s the case then where is she spending $700 on food?
There’s a large gap between $500/cars and hitching rides.

A lot of money is being spent, for 2 ppl. that doesn’t sound like a budgeting queen to me,

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 8:44 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Not judging her here, trying to help with idea of how others make it work.

Definitely not easy to have to pay Heath insurance and high taxes. And having kids will help a bit with tax credits but that’s always an issue with the middle class. Someone making way less than you can be better off because of having health insurance, wic for formula etc.

amother

Amethyst

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 8:59 pm

Op, getting back to your original question as to "how do people do it". I think when a family has 4 kids or more, making simchas, sending to camps, and living in-town, in my opinion it's almost always 1 of 2 possibilities.

1. Income of AT LEAST 200k. This is the bare minimum. Or...

2. Inherited wealth/family help.

I live in the 5 towns, not the fancy shmancy area. Most of my immediate neighbors live lifestyles that seem impossible. Not because it's so extravagant, but so expensive. To send kids to Israel year after year for around 25k seems crazy. Plus regular intown tuition, sleep away camps every year, it just doesn't add up for families that make under 200k. Simple math.

amother

Crimson

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 9:02 pm

I agree you need to Make money in order to live a normal in town lifestyle. I still think 100k without kids is a very nice amount. Lots of people make less than that and are perfectly fine. Obviously everyone has their own expenses so we can't judge but usually there is somewhere to cut out of the budget. I also think there are a lot of people who get a lot of parental help. Also, it might make sense for you to look into cheaper health insurance options. I pay a lot less than you for my family altogether. I have separate insurance for DH and I as a couple and my kids are on a different insurance.

amother

Olive

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 9:35 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

If someone drives a lot for work gas can be expensive. My DH commutes 3+ hrs every day. Gas bill is huge - much higher then what is quoted here !! If the driving is for work you can see if you can use pre-tax money for it.

amother

Olive

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 9:46 pm

Op - DH and I also made about 100k gross when first married. But netted way less after taxes and health insurance and ma’aser. It was depressing to see the take home check.
Tons of ppl are on programs (not criticing just saying) which helps a ton
Your expenses really aren’t excessive. It’s almost impossible to find a nice rental for under 1100-1200 and utilities can be sky high - especially with ac in the summer.
I have a family now and spend double you for food without buying extras. Your numbers are not excessive.

The only thing I can tell you is not to look at what others are buying more (designer clothing, new sheitels, vacations, luxury leases, fancy night out, decorated apartments ) because either they have family help or putting on credit cards or on programs for rental assistance with housing, phones, utilities, food, healthcare, childcare or just faking it for social media.
Otherwise it’s impossible.

amother

Wine

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 10:39 pm

I think you really are in an ok financial situation but need to tighten the budget.

Currently what happens to the extra money in budgeted categories?
I know sometimes it can be tempting to use it to "treat" yourself but that is a mistake. Try the envelope method and see what you have left over - you may be surprised.
I don't think you live really nicely - just that you are spending a lot for your current income
Then try to see how you can save in each category without making yourself crazy -looking at your current budget here are some ideas.

- Try shopping for veggies according to whats on sales instead of according to a menu.
- There is a farmers market near the freehold mall, it can be much cheaper then the frum stores
- check what subscriptions are really necessary - also look at your phone plans, can you use phones as hotspots instead of wi-fi?

It sounds like you would like to host more often for shabbos but are to tight. I find that shabbos day is cheaper to host (fri night is fish+ soup + chicken/meat + sides vs appetizer+ cholent + sides) and offset it by going to our parents for a different shabbos that month (we like going to our parents) so we have 2 shabbosim a month free and another 2 where we host for the day meal.

Also - since you are saving for a house it may be worthwhile to move to a cheaper less nice/smaller place so that you can save more and buy quicker. Especially in LKWD the prices just keep going up and IMO either people get help for the down-payment or the really are careful while saving. Think about it - if you could cut rent/utilities down to 1,000$ then you can save double what you currently are = buy a house in half the time.

As for having a baby:
Long term you are expected income increases so you should be fine, it's more about the next 2-3 years when you are tight. Don't worry about setting up the baby gear/clothing, with the first you get tons of gifts, and usually parents/grandparents want to help out with that- and you can find amazing quality stuff 2nd hand.
The big deal is childcare - try to find out what exactly you are looking at, and see if all the budget tweaks bring you to that number. If it doesn't you either can cut down more on some areas ( I allow myself a couple of new items every season but I never spend more then 100$, same for dh - your current budget gives you 900$ a year- thats a lot. Try avoiding frum stores).

SuperWify

Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:22 pm

I live in Lakewood, my rent plus utilities is about $1800, I have a child who needs clothes, diapers and school paid for. Our cars cost about $500 month. We spend much more in cleaning help, takeout, tripes ect. and we spend around $4,500-5 k a month.
You make a nice income. I know people with way more kids then zero who make a lot less then you. Of course you can afford a child. You are over thinking this IMO. I know this sounds counter-intuitive but I would stop the budgeting for a month. Just live and breathe. You won’t feel so stressed about it anymore.

Good luck!

ora_43

Sun, Aug 23 2020, 4:45 am

I don't live in Lakewood, so this is just general:

You have some work-related expenses you're treating as personal expenses. Eg if your dh is paying $250/month for a car and $180/month for gas, that's not "dh earns $4,000 a month and we spend $430 on a car and gas for him," that's "after expenses, dh earns $3570 a month."

I'm being picky about this for a few reasons:
- You may not need to pay as much maaser as you think

- It may be part of your answer; friends who say "we earn $4,500 a month and we're doing fine" might earn $5,000 a month before work-related expenses (and simply calculate salary differently).

- Work-related expenses can be an important factor when deciding which job is better, and that only gets more true as you have kids. Eg things like flexible hours, being allowed to leave at 4 instead of 5 and complete that last hour at home in the evening, can be worth a lot of money.

Second, I don't see chag expenses, furniture, vacation, or appliances/electronics on your list. Are those under "miscellaneous"? Or is it possible that there are some 'one time' expenses that aren't in the monthly budget, that might explain where some of the money is going?

Third - in general, now is the time to cut back. It's just easier to save money before kids. It sounds like you're mostly on the right track. I would pick 1-2 things each that you and your dh are "allowed" to spend money on guilt-free, up to a certain point, and 2-3 areas where you're going to try to cut back. Eg your dh must have his wine and his weekly paper, but is willing to buy a haircut machine and do his own haircuts at home. Or you will keep paying more for the more comfortable shoes and the fresh produce, but will find even cheaper date nights and cut back on use of paper goods.

If you can cut, say, $30 from date night spending, $90 from groceries, $40 from 'household,' etc, you could be saving another $200-$300 dollars. So between that and your anticipated raise (assuming it's a near-certainty), you'd have around $1,000 a month beyond what you're spending now, by next year.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Aug 23 2020, 7:51 am

SuperWify wrote:

Are u counting in parental help/ gifts in the 4/5k?

Just curious cuz we spend around the same but need to make more cuz unlike poster above, I needed to budget for all the new baby stuff bh( got a few random stretchies and a mamaroo as gifts:), was a girl so I ended up having the money I saved for a bris to use for help which was amazing. It’s wasn’t as expensive as I thought and OP if it’s helpful I’m happy to break down the numbers of baby costs specifically.

Point is that a lot of ppl don’t realize how those costs that parents subsidize(Yom Tov, shopping spree etc.) add up quickly if you’re doing all of it on your own.

That being said 4/5k for us is including very high rent and living nicely so I do think there’s a way to manipulate the numbers and iyh make room for a baby comfortably.