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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> School age children
amother
OP
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:03 pm
We moved from Brooklyn to a large development in lkwd a year ago. Dd8 is still struggling to find friends to hang out with. She is generally benignly excluded, and sometimes even outright rejected. She is cute, dressed nicely, friendly, fun, nice, though somewhat anxious. We have made many overtures, inviting kids over, arranging play dates. We made her a lovely birthday party that lots of kids showed up to. We have a fun house and a fun backyard. I can not figure out why no one is reciprocating. Girls are not knocking on our door, including her in shabbos and Sunday plans. I see the kids here mostly hang out in groups, they just seem to find each other, and they drift from house to house or yard to yard. But somehow she’s not in on it, not included, and when she chases them down it’s often awkward and she can’t seem to break in. And I hear kids making comments to her, about her not being wanted. I don’t know how to help. Am I supposed to be speaking to parents and asking them to include her?? Help her figure out where everyone is every shabbos afternoon and walk her over there? I am afraid to make things worse by being over involved. How do these things work?? I have considered social skills groups but guessing she is too advanced for them. I can not put my finger on any specific skill she is missing. Though I know there is something about her that attracts this kind of behavior, she was bullied in our old neighborhood too. I just don’t know what we are doing wrong she has nice friends in her new schools, they call her, ask to come over etc. just not walkable on shabbos.
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QueensMama
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:07 pm
Wow, that sounds painful.
Does dd have friends in school? Does she have trouble socially elsewhere or is it just on the block?
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amother
OP
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:11 pm
QueensMama wrote: | Wow, that sounds painful.
Does dd have friends in school? Does she have trouble socially elsewhere or is it just on the block? | I just added on that she does have friends at school, and it’s a new school too. She seems to do much better one on one than in a group. She ends up playing with younger kids a lot, I guess she finds them less intimidating and they adore her.
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QueensMama
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:18 pm
Now that you've added on about her being bullied in her old neighborhood too, I'd definitely speak to someone to try to help her.
Maybe Mindy Rosenthal can guide you.
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amother
OP
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:21 pm
QueensMama wrote: | Now that you've added on about her being bullied in her old neighborhood too, I'd definitely speak to someone to try to help her.
Maybe Mindy Rosenthal can guide you. | what are her credentials and where is she located?
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QueensMama
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:25 pm
I believe she has an office in Lakewood.
Mindy Rosenthal, M.S., BCBA/LBA
Behavior and Educational Consulting
Mindy Rosenthal, M.S., BCBA/LBA. is director of Student Services at Ilan High School. Her private practice, Behavior Educational Consulting, specializes in the remediation of social skill deficits in children, adolescents and adults.
Maybe some Lakewooders here have her contact info.
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amother
OP
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:28 pm
QueensMama wrote: | I believe she has an office in Lakewood.
Mindy Rosenthal, M.S., BCBA/LBA
Behavior and Educational Consulting
Mindy Rosenthal, M.S., BCBA/LBA. is director of Student Services at Ilan High School. Her private practice, Behavior Educational Consulting, specializes in the remediation of social skill deficits in children, adolescents and adults.
Maybe some Lakewooders here have her contact info. | thank you
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amother
Ginger
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:40 pm
I'm having an issue with cliquiness too. Speaking to the parents doesn't help because they back their kids right to choose their friends. I don't know what social skills therapy will help. They know the rules. Will it give them the cool factor needed to be accepted? It's very sad.
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amother
OP
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:45 pm
amother [ Ginger ] wrote: | I'm having an issue with cliquiness too. Speaking to the parents doesn't help because they back their kids right to choose their friends. I don't know what social skills therapy will help. They know the rules. Will it give them the cool factor needed to be accepted? It's very sad. | I like how you said it. I don’t know if therapy can give her that cool factor. OTOH, that cool factor isn’t always an elusive, ephemeral, nebulous something. Maybe It can be broken down to specific skills and traits that can be learned, at least partially? What makes a kid cool? And what if being cool is just not her? Should she be rejected and excluded cuz she’s not cool?
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amother
Azure
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:46 pm
Don’t have any advice, just sending hugs from mother to mother (I have an 8 yo dd too)...This sounds heartbreaking! Just wanted to send some love your way.
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amother
OP
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:47 pm
amother [ Azure ] wrote: | Don’t have any advice, just sending hugs from mother to mother (I have an 8 yo dd too)...This sounds heartbreaking! Just wanted to send some love your way. | thank you, I appreciate it. It does break my heart.
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amother
Red
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:56 pm
To give you chizuk, dd struggled socially as well. Slowly but surely I am seeing huge changes. She's ten now and has become so confident lately, in fact she's started walking around with a bit of a swagger, and flipping her hair dramatically which is making me laugh but also its heartwarming because she used t have such low self esteem.
I bought her a lot of books on social skills. Without pressure, left them around for her to read. I also sent her to therapy to deal with some social anxiety she had. All this helped but mostly I think she's just growing into herself.
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amother
Red
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Sat, Aug 22 2020, 11:59 pm
Books I bought her included:
Social Skills Activities for Kids: 50 Fun Exercises for Making Friends, Talking and Listening, and Understanding Social Rules
Natasha Daniels
Let's Be Friends: A Workbook to Help Kids Learn Social Skills and Make Great Friends A Workbook to Help Kids Learn Social Skills and Make Great Friends
Shapiro PhD, Lawrence E.,
What to Do When You Feel Too Shy: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Social Anxiety (What-to-Do Guides for Kids) What-to-do Guides for Kids
Claire A. B. Freeland PhD, Jacqueline B. Toner PhD, Janet McDonnell
Sold by: Amazon.com Services, Inc
also, an American Girl book on friendship had some great insights.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:02 am
Thank you amother red! These look great! I do think social anxiety is a piece for us.
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amother
Lawngreen
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:11 am
What are the other girls playing? Is it social games or specific toys? I would find a friendly mom of one of the girls and find out what’s in. Then I would make sure my kid had whatever toys are in and knows how to play the games.
I’ve been on both sides of this with a child who was excluded and with children who are popular. It’s hard to get calls from moms asking me to have a talk with my child so they’ll include the other child. If I ask my kid to include the other kid it makes the other kid seem nebachdik and they become even less interested in playing with that kid. They usually try to include the kid short-term because I told them to, but it fizzles out.
Does your dd know how to take turns in conversation and show interest in the other person? Does she know what topics are considered fine and which are considered socially off? Does she know about personal space?
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amother
Pearl
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:31 am
I had this with my daughter too, in a lakewood development that sounds similar. My daughter was also a cute, normal, well dressed kid with friends at school but couldn’t break into the cliqueyness in the development...I don’t think she ever needed therapy, just time and support to build confidence and find some nice kids. With time we found some other kids either in similar circumstances or whose parents were looking for them to stop playing with nicer girls and encouraged the change. It’s so so so painful living it.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:39 am
amother [ Lawngreen ] wrote: | What are the other girls playing? Is it social games or specific toys? I would find a friendly mom of one of the girls and find out what’s in. Then I would make sure my kid had whatever toys are in and knows how to play the games.
I’ve been on both sides of this with a child who was excluded and with children who are popular. It’s hard to get calls from moms asking me to have a talk with my child so they’ll include the other child. If I ask my kid to include the other kid it makes the other kid seem nebachdik and they become even less interested in playing with that kid. They usually try to include the kid short-term because I told them to, but it fizzles out.
Does your dd know how to take turns in conversation and show interest in the other person? Does she know what topics are considered fine and which are considered socially off? Does she know about personal space? | she has all the right toys and games. She does fine in conversations and is aware of personal space. And that’s exactly why I hesitate to involve parents.
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amother
OP
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 12:43 am
amother [ Pearl ] wrote: | I had this with my daughter too, in a lakewood development that sounds similar. My daughter was also a cute, normal, well dressed kid with friends at school but couldn’t break into the cliqueyness in the development...I don’t think she ever needed therapy, just time and support to build confidence and find some nice kids. With time we found some other kids either in similar circumstances or whose parents were looking for them to stop playing with nicer girls and encouraged the change. It’s so so so painful living it. | thanks for validating. It’s hard for me to see this as cliquenyness, because it’s a new place and everyone’s really new, but some of this may be due to logistics such as not living on the same block as any of the other kids? She does have 1 friend that she sometimes goes over to, and the mom is very encouraging of the friendship but that kid also has another BFF that lives much closer and is closer to her in age and if they’re already with a whole group that doesn’t help much.
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amother
Seashell
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 9:38 am
Dr Joel Shaul has some free youtubes meant for autistic children.
It helps everyone, though.
Even if your daughter has all the skills presented she might get an insight which will give her tremendous confidence.
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amother
Seashell
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Sun, Aug 23 2020, 9:42 am
amother [ OP ] wrote: | I like how you said it. I don’t know if therapy can give her that cool factor. OTOH, that cool factor isn’t always an elusive, ephemeral, nebulous something. Maybe It can be broken down to specific skills and traits that can be learned, at least partially? What makes a kid cool? And what if being cool is just not her? Should she be rejected and excluded cuz she’s not cool? |
No. Keep cool out of the equation.
Watch the interaction of a group of adults in conversation at a simcha table. Look at the body language and the vibes of the dominant person- the one everyones eyes are glued to. It is the same pattern in girls and teens. BABIES IN SHEITELS....
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