S/O Why the word aspergers should be abolished.

amother

Gray

Fri, Dec 25 2020, 3:26 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I have a feeling like there is a lot of defensiveness going on in this thread. I understand that many of you have felt attacked for being different, for your entire lives. It's understandable that you feel like I am trying to attack you, but I promise you I am not.

Every person I know with Asperger's, including my ex, is highly intelligent. I would say well above average. They work hard at skilled jobs, pay the bills on time, learn Torah diligently, and would never dream of breaking halacha (rigid thinking for the win!) In many ways, they are better than a lot of NT people I know.

I have yet to meet someone with an Asperger's diagnosis who is considered "low functioning" in terms of daily activities. Now if you want to talk about "emotional IQ", that is very different, and that is where they don't measure the same as people with ASD.

I know several NT women who are happily married to men with an Asperger's diagnosis, and I am very fond of their husbands. These men are wonderful to their wives. Of course not all people on the spectrum are jerks! I never said they were. I just happened to end up with a bad apple.

I'm willing to concede that some people with Asperger's may feel empathy, but cannot express it. I've also been told by people with Asperger's that they do NOT feel empathy. One guy told me that he keeps a Rolodex in his head, and when a response is needed, he flips through his mental card file, to find the card that says what is expected of an NT person. That's not feeling, that's coping and masking. He's not ashamed of the fact. Actually, he's quite proud of how clever he is at "passing for normal."

I knew him for years and had no idea he had Asperger's, until he told me! His wife adores him, and cherishes him BECAUSE of his Asperger's gifts, like reliability, stability, and the ability to put up with her moods without becoming enmeshed. The successful marriages to neurodiverse partners are because the women were looking for those traits specifically. If you are expecting someone ND to behave like an NT, that is unfair and you'll only make each other miserable.

I didn't come here to fight, I came here to discuss.

Shabbat Shalom

But you’ve created a false dichotomy, that people diagnosed with autism can experience empathy but those with aspergers can’t. Research indicates that people with ASD often are not as good at shallow empathy but are better at deep empathy.

That being said I do agree that marriage between a NT and a ND can be difficult.

imorethanamother

Fri, Dec 25 2020, 5:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Everyone mental illness has a large spectrum. Do you feel people with very mild anxiety or depression also don't receive needed services?

Also you say you don't know anyone high functioning. That's very unlikely true. My disability is invisibe. I went to a mainstream high school in Brooklyn, I had friends, I was dance head, I got good grades, went to a standard seminary, etc. I looked like everyone else. I had the right bag and shoes. Even the things I was slightly obsessed with were "normal" makeup and fashion. Today I'm a personal shopper and I do really well.

Well, then this is even more nonsensical. You sound amazing. People with classic autism can do zero of the things you mentioned. Zero.

If your disability is so invisible, then the mental health issue you're struggling with is not autism as most people know it. So maybe your fight should be to give it a name, instead of piggy-backing on people who have terrible problems.

And again, your insistence on wanting to be labelled autism, and therefore have everyone know your particular brand of disability AS autism will dilute what it actually means, and thereby make it all the harder eventually for the rest of us to get help.

I don't pretend that you're not struggling with a disability. But it's not autism. I hope you get the help you need.

amother

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 11:26 am

imorethanamother wrote:

But that's the second problem - it IS autism. I struggle with disassociation in a specific way I could never explain the reason for, and as I started following other high functioning women on instagram I found they experience the same exact thing I do.

I want to make this very clear - I am not piggybacking on anyone. I have been diagnosed my entire life, and there's a huge lack of information in the frum community. Just because my struggles aren't visible or aren't "as bad" doesn't mean they don't exist. I am not the one who decides what my disability is called. I will link information about high functioning ASD and ASD in women below for you to learn. In addition I have MRI scans as a child that show that I have ASD as well - you can see it in MRI's

The issue is:
1. In the frum community (and in the secular community as well for many years but not today) there's a lack of information and awareness about people high functioning.

2. Autism was studied up until recently really only in boys and it affects women COMPLETELY differently. There's more information in the past 5 or 10 years coming out and women in their 30's and 40's are now being diagnosed. Women learn to catch on and 'mask' to fit in. It is extremely draining, and it exhausts them to keep up a façade and be hyper alert for hours at a time.

https://www.highspeedtraining......ales/
https://www.aane.org/women-asperger-profiles/
https://www.verywellhealth.com.....60305

Some of the things I did as a child that are autistic traits:

- Lack of social skills, blunt, didn't keep eye contact
- Had an elaborate fantasy world and escape into that.
- Spoke in more of a monotone
- Super sensory, I cried when we had fire drills and school assembly's and would run and leave.
- Needed routine, if things changed I would be very upset
- Got along better with kids younger than me, felt like I could be myself with them.
- Their counterparts on the higher end of the spectrum may start talking much earlier than normal and often display an impressive vocabulary. (https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/lists/5-symptoms-of-high-functioning-autism/)
- Spoke way too much about me - went to a lot of therapies where we did excersizes where we had to throw a ball around and whoever had it only they could speak, learning to take turns.

Some of the things I have difficulty with that are autistic traits:

- Emotion regulation
- Easily overwhelmed and sensory
- Anxiety
- Breaking down after masking for too long, after going to a wedding, my in laws, or just being around a bunch of people and socialize for a few hours.
- Still get anxious when plans change

- So many of the things here: https://the-art-of-autism.com/.....list/ still overshare too much, too honest, Feels trapped between wanting to be herself and wanting to fit in, Exhibits codependent behaviors (often in young adulthood), questions social norms, Feeling good about self takes a lot of effort and work, Didn’t care about her hygiene, clothes, and appearance before teenage years and/or before someone else pointed these out to her, “Freaks out” but doesn’t know why until later, Longs to be seen, heard, and understood, Questions if she is a “normal” person, Dreams are anxiety-ridden, vivid, complex, and/or precognitive in nature, Sensitive to sounds, textures, temperature, and/or smells when trying to sleep, Highly empathetic, sometimes to the point of confusion, I can go on and on.

Chickensoupprof

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 1:34 pm

I basically have the same struggles/issues as OP, and it is hard.

And indeed, it was back then more about boys and I couldn't identify with that. I remember when I was 13 I got psycho-education and it was about: ''Einstein was also autistic'' and ''your talents are probably with numbers, physics, mechanics and programming''. Ehm.... No. I was really bad at all those things didn't understand anything. I was good in history, working with elderly with Alzheimer, I was good with a relative of good friends of my parents a girl who has a cognitive impairment, I was good in acting, art languages were ok. I also really had the urge to have friendships but basically, I did not how to 'interact' I went from claiming to just don't give a darn, the only thing I wanted was to be normal. And then good people who meant well: ''hun there is no normal'' ''Oh there is a normal otherwise I didn't have a diagnosis, the fact I have this label means I'm abnormal''.

I experienced it because I was a child when I got my diagnosis. And what happens is that you get ''hospitalized'' it's a common thing. Sometimes parents and teachers see the children as ''the autism'' or ''the ADHD'' this still happening in my life today. My mom always worried about how fast I thought and the fact I was interested in things that were ''odd''. The fact I buy a new Artscroll book? ''It's not good for your mind to read Jewish stuff is good for you also to get involved with other things otherwise you will become insular''.
But it also happens to little children and I see it happening. The child of who we know she/he has a diagnosis gets emphasized on the diagnosis. Someone who is ADHD and who starts to get a little bit restless will sooner get punished than the other kid who is maybe doing way more disturbing and when the ADHD child gets involved he is punished harder then the other child.
I remeber in college I wanted to become drama therapist and I bh had good grades but I was bad in adjusting with my classmates and in group work they didn't help me the school didn't helped me and bla bla bla... All a mess.
Anyhoo... what happened? My classmates who lived in student houses and went clubbing all night long and were basically still drunk in the first hour of the class never got a comment. I didn't sleep one night and immediately I got comments ''it is hard for you ey? Maybe too hard? You have such circles underneath you eyes'' all because they knew my diagnosis if they didn't and I just had a bad night sleep... It was ok. I felt this numerous of times. Basically, you are the autist and people try to find a reason to put all your behaviour in the box of ''autism'' Really frustrating.

I was and still am really self contious, I try to style myself perfectly and get the best make-up because I feel ''real autists live always in the same clothes''. And I can name more things.

also ASD is genetic, if you have child with ASD maybe you have it yourself there much be so much mothers in the frum community with ASD...