Dayan called me "דו"

amother

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 12:15 pm

Zehava wrote:

I wouldn’t worry from this alone. But if it’s making you anxious keep an extra eye out for other red flags. Trust your intuition.

I am definitely the problem here. There are not other red flags. I'm just so unsure now. Can I trust everything else this dayan ever said? It's so hard when no one can tell me that saying dee is perfectly ok and it's very unnerving and makes me feel like I'm not standing on solid ground. I don't know if my fears around dee are rational or not and no one can calm me because how can they?

amother

Pink

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 12:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That's the definition of anxiety, honestly - fears that can't be eased and may or may not be rational. When the question "what if..." is driving you crazy without relief.

I'm not from your community, so I can't advise you about whether this is normal or if it raises red flags. But if this is literally the only thing ever and you've been using him for a while, I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

Zehava

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 12:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It’s hard and unnerving when you’ve been told all your life exactly what is and what isn’t okay.
And now suddenly you find yourself in the deep end of the pool, all by yourself, and it’s up to you to make the decisions.
It’s a bit like learning to ride a bike. It’ll be hard and terrifying at first. But eventually you will find your balance, and it’ll become second nature.

amother

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:00 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

This isn't anxiety. You need to understand that a dayan saying to a woman dee is an unheard of incident in our community, even a plain regular grocery cashier wouldn't do it, only a certain type.

If someone I respect could tell me it's ok I would calm down so I guess I will listen to amother Ruby and try to present all facts when I ask someone about it because it is reasonable to assume that because of the content the dayan was not concentrating on this or just made a one conversation mistake and the rest is ok, especially if it happens again.

Also if it were to happen again I don't want to become distressed and unnerved all over again.

Raisin

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:13 pm

I don't know the answer but this has got to be my favourite question today on imamother.

Not that I don't get thats it is discconcerting. But maybe he was just absent minded and is horribly embarrassed now at his faux pas.

(also curious why some yiddish speakers say dee for "דו"instead of du. Where does this come from? Is that the same in hebrew too? Do you say Cheemish? And are we saying that vowel incorrectly or are you?)

amother

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:17 pm

Raisin wrote:

I don't know the answer but this has got to be my favourite question on imamother.

(also curious why some yiddish speakers say dee for "דו"instead of du. Where does this come from? Is that the same in hebrew too? Do you say Cheemish? And are we saying that vowel incorrectly or are you?)

It's our havara. We have a melipim and a sheerik. We don't say cheemish more like chimesh (like the sound in limp) but we do say Malkynee and Eeree so it just depends. I think when we say ee and ih is more mesorah unlike a kumetz which has rules when it is an oo and when it is not although our shitta is to not focus on this purposely.

amother

Blue

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:31 pm

Many people have asked OP why she doesnt ask her husband.

Im going to go out on a limb now and guess that you were discussing something with the dayan behind DH's back. If that's not true, forgive me OP. Is there another reason why you wouldnt ask your dh?

Also, are you talking to this dayan on a regular basis about your situation? He recognizes you beyond an anonymous caller?

amother

Ruby

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In my case it was anxiety and I could only see this years later because I was too anxious to see it rationally at that point.

All I could see back then was how I'm drifting off to the far end and becoming secular and how I will look back one day and see that it all started with this rav and how I'm crazy for trusting him-them and so on.

That's how the brain of an anxious person coming from our communities works.

I wish there was a person that could tell me back then, dont worry so much.

The thing is that this mistrust is part and parcel of being abused and traumatized so it is not like I would trust anyone that told me that the rav I'm talking to can be trusted.

The only people I trusted were my parents and family who abused me and didn't understand me one bit but I couldn't fathom that there's a truth besides what they grilled into me.

Anyone that had a different opinion than them wasn't trustworthy to me back then so even if God alone would tell me that this rav is ok I wouldn't buy it because it wasn't a rational issue. It was an anxiety.

To everyone saying intuition- intuition is only intuition when it isn't covered under mountains of anxiety.

Ps I am not secular... far from it. I stayed the way I was but internally I am a real jew now bh.

amother

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:47 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

This describes my feelings exactly. So how did you get yourself to continue to speak to the rav or to stop worrying and second guessing everything, everyone and yourself? Just trusted the process and blocked it out?

amother

Rose

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:50 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

Are you chassidish yiddish speaking?
It's generally inappropriate for a dayan or any non related man to talk to women like this. It's to homey and friendly and not professional.
A dayan should not ask a women דו ביזט געווען...
He supposed to ask איר זענט געווען.......
In English there aren't really different terms, but in yiddish there is and it's considered inappropriate for men to talk like this to unrelated women and vice versa.

Yes I speak yidish and my Dayan is very chassidish.

If the Dayan speaks in a general refined manner, there should be no problem. If his language is a little off, than this would be another red flag.

watergirl

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:56 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Amother ruby mentioned in the post you are replying to here that this mistrust and anxiety comes with being abused and traumatized. Is that the case with you? Is that part of why this is so upsetting to you?

amother

Ruby

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 1:59 pm

lamplighter wrote:

Did I miss where you answered what your husband thinks?
He's the first person you should address your concerns with since he knows the culture, language and all parties involved.
Bunch of random internet women aren't helping you clearly.

Does it dawn upon anyone that people can have issues with their husbands and need a rav to talk to about it?

Does OP really have to put her entire story here in order to go through the application process of getting a response here?

amother

Ruby

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 2:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

At some point I took meds and it helped me see things more clearly.

I also knew many people that went to that person and I knew that they remained erlich so I had that in back of my mind.

I still always second guessed myself because I thought that these other people never were in my position and I felt that no one ever had to discuss the things that I need to discuss.

It took me years to get over my fears and know what real red flags are.

lamplighter

Fri, Apr 23 2021, 2:20 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Sure it's possible... That would be the answer to my post. Shes anonymous for goshs sake. She can just say I didn't discuss this with my husband because it was about him or whatever. Honestly a rav being overly familiar during a sholom bayis style shayla is actually concerning. So context may be helpful here.