Self Contained vs Shadow

amother

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:34 pm

With all else being equal and if you have both options, in your opinion would you put a bright 8 year old child with behavioral challenges (ADHD) in a self contained class with others with similar challenges or in a general ed class with a shadow? No learning disabilities or the like. What are the pros and cons of both options?

amother

Oldlace

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:37 pm

Regular ed with a shadow. Self contained usually teaches on a lower level and if your child is bright that is a disadvantage. Also they often pick up on each other's behaviors and copy each other in a self contained class. Not that a self contained class is not great for some kids. But for someone who has both options and the child can keep up academically I think regular ed with a shadow offers them more opportunities.

amother

Clover

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:41 pm

amother [ Oldlace ] wrote:

Agree- least restrictive is better

amother

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:42 pm

amother [ Oldlace ] wrote:

Thanks! How will a shadow impact a 3rd grader socially?
Also wondering how we'll be able to afford the cost of the shadow...
But these are great points! Thanks for your input!

amother

Taupe

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:43 pm

amother [ Oldlace ] wrote:

This .
Over thirty years as a special Ed teacher with many years as a SEIT as well. Keeping the child in regular Ed setting is less restrictive and usually the better option if there are no learning disabilities. Is medication an option as well?
I have seen it literally save children with ADHD behaviors, allowing them to function without the shadow as well .

amother

Cobalt

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:44 pm

My neice had a shadow till this year. She was miserable and felt like an outcast and neb of the class. She was switched into a self contained class this year and she's a different child. She loves loves school and is doing much better socially as well. She is happier in a self contained class.

amother

Aqua

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:46 pm

If the self contained class will teach her on her level, definitely that. A shadow for a third grader who is very bright can be detrimental.
What does the school say? any professionals who know her who can weigh in?

amother

Sienna

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:49 pm

For a child with ADHD and no resulting learning disabilities, as a special education teacher who teaches self-contained classes, I would recommend a regular classroom placement with a shadow. As others have said, it is the least restrictive environment and will allow the child to learn on level. The question is if their behavior will be too disruptive to handle in a larger classroom setting.

mha3484

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:50 pm

I did the self contained at that age. An 8 year old will find the shadow embarrassing and I find a lot of them are not helpful. Better to be in a classroom with kids who are similar to you so you don’t feel like the dumb one or the one kid who can’t behave.

My son has severe adhd and is gifted. At the end of first grade his self image was slowly going down the drain. I don’t think a shadow would have helped him at all. He needed the social coaching that came with being in a small class of kids like him. He was back in his yeshiva for 3rd grade.

Last edited by mha3484 on Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Oldlace

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 7:51 pm

I had a deaf girl in my class and I didn’t find out the “helper” in my classroom was her shadow until I graduated. You need to come up with a cover the classmates don’t have to realize or know it’s a shadow. There are many ways to be discreet.

elmommy

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 8:06 pm

I always assumed least restrictive environment was best for kids. I still don't know if it is, but flip side so you have more opinions than what seems to be the majority. I work in a school for very high functioning kids- some even sound like this. The goal is to transition out. There were 2 kids ready to transition out with support- both bright and both kids said they wanted to stay in the school. They both had the feeling of success there which was different than the other schools they were previously. They have friends who are similar- mostly ADHD or high functioning autism and the kids like this a lot better than being the outlier in the regular classroom.
It def feels better for the parents to have the kids mainstreamed, but the kids might have other opinions. Depends on the child obviously.

amother

Begonia

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 8:26 pm

My daughter had a shadow and she and everyone else thought she was the class assistant who was “mostly” helping her bec she needed the most help. Which was fine. She didn’t sit next to my daughter seat and help her. She walked around the classroom and from time to time helped out another girl just so it wasn’t obvious. I was paying her privately and it worked out well.

amother

Crystal

Sat, Oct 16 2021, 9:05 pm

How will the shadow help the child? I find that children who have shadows can get dependent on them can easily become social outcasts this is true even in children as young as 3. If the child is placed in a class with children of similar learning capacity and learning difficulties they are pushed to be part of a group and take responsibility for their learning and behavior because they are not considered "special" in the self contained class... Coming from a special educator who has worked in special Ed school and reg Ed (preschool though). I don't believe less restrictive is always better at all. Based on my experience I believe that whatever GROUP your child can function with the LEAST DIRECT SUPPORT is best. BUT... Ultimately I would tell you not to take mine or anyone on the thread advice because we don't know your child enough. As a parent I would only seriously consider the opinions of the child's previous teachers, principal and therapists.

amother

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 4:55 am

Thank you all for your responses.

To answer your questions:

She has had a shadow on and off over the past few years. There is a history of prompt dependency and I'm concerned about getting too dependent on the shadow and also the social stigma. I'm understandably also concerned about the financial burden.

School had admitted a few times that they can't do what's best for her, only what is easiest for teacher, so I don't quite trust them. They have tried to kick her out a few times. They say shadow will keep her on task and pull her out for breaks when she starts to act out.

Therapist (non Jewish) feels she can be independent with several accommodations but school won't offer those accommodations because 1. Some accommodations rely on tech which they can't do in a frum school and 2. Teachers aren't trained to offer them/would be too much work for teacher to stay on top of them. Therapist experience is with public school kids where only super severe kids get a shadow so she thinks it's totally inappropriate.

We have an appointment coming up for a med change and I'm hoping it will help a bit

There are no other appropriate schools in our mid sized community.

I'm trying to figure out what's best for her...

I may delete when I get more response for privacy

amother

Lightpink

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 5:24 am

Good luck sounds tough. Don't put her in self contained class if she's smart ans has no LD. I did that with on my kids and he felt like he was in a "dumb class".
I'm not sure if it's an option where you live but when my son couldn't stay in class and I didn't have another option we applied thru Boe to homeschool. I had a teacher come to our house 4 times a week for an hour and a half(if I remember correctly!) He went to school for a couple of hours in the morning then came home and had private teacher.
We did that for about 6 months until we found the right medication for him to be able to sit thru classes. I needed a note from my doctor that he couldn't attend school.

amother

Poinsettia

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 5:29 am

As a kid from a family full of ASD and ADHD and Anxiety, my mom pushing us to stay in mainstream school with no shadows or anything and get therapies after school was the best thing for us to learn how to fit into society.

amother

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 5:32 am

amother [ Poinsettia ] wrote:

That's what we are trying! Child gets therapy 2x a week after school already. School agreed to start school year independently but now we are dealing with behaviors. We are trying to figure out school situation...

amother

Cerise

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 5:34 am

My daughter is gifted with adhd-I and is mainstreamed with no shadow or accommodations. In Lakewood. The school convinced me a shadow would negatively impact her socially. We are just davening at this point. Because she is only inattentive she doesn’t make trouble for the teachers. I would think considering your situation to look into the self contained and see if they can accommodate your daughters gifted needs. If the school doesn’t want her it makes things so much harder. My daughters school is on board and it’s still terribly hard.

amother

Mayflower

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 10:02 am

this is really the heart of the problem: too many frum schools are not willing to do the things that make mainstreaming successful, so you're left with ether a shadow or a special ed class, and neither is really appropriate. My DS (ASD/ADHD) was in a public school class because our local school was unable to make those changes. He was fully mainstreamed with a para only for support in a few things he struggled with (mainly specials) and it was super successful for him. Mainstreaming really does work for a lot of kids but the teachers need to be properly trained and supported.

amother

Poinsettia

Sun, Oct 17 2021, 12:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You have to just push. Get all the therapies and things they need. Everything. And push for them to stay in school no matter what. Try to come up with ways with therapists to make it easier that you don’t need to work with the school on together.