My ds wants to join the idf and make aliya, need advice

amother

Birch

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 2:38 pm

juggling wrote:

I think that's fear-mongering. It's no different than if he'd be attending uni in the US. If he's committed to shabbat and kashrut he will have no problem maintaining that commitment in the IDF. Kids who give it up while in the army are kids who would have given it up as young adults in any case.

Nope, it's not fear-mongering.
IDF is much more intense than uni.
The entire point of soldier training is to break your instinct to think in favor of doing what the commander says. It's especially hard if you're in a new country and not fluent and without a full understanding of the culture. AND you are doing it alone without friends and no family to go to on the off weekends.
It's not like kids are going into the army looking to lower standards, but you get so exhausted physically, mentally and emotionally that something's gotta go. And in the IDF sticking to your religious principles is not especially easy, and sometimes you just don't have the strength left for the fight every time.

*I have a brother who did IDF a little after university. He did really well in the army, but less well religiously...

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 2:57 pm

There are many many mechina programs. It's just a one year program meant to prepare students for the army. Some of them focus a lot on fitness, personal development, community service. Some have more of a Torah Learning emphasis. I'm far from having kids in that age bracket so I don't necessarily know all of the options (random list: Beit Yisrael, Ein Prat, Eli).
Also, if the army was invested in making people less religious, they wouldn't be sending people to study Judaism as part of their service (there is a program to convert through the army, and also a three month course to learn about Judaism which mostly targets olim not from frum backgrounds). I think the IDF is too worried about protecting Israel to be concerned with secular indoctrination. By far the highest percentage of officers come out of the Dati Leumi community. I'm sorry that the above poster's brother became less or not religious in the army, it is really a tough experience, but it doesn't have to mean becoming irreligious.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 3:17 pm

amother [ Birch ] wrote:

But it is fear mongering. This is your brother's experience. Of course there are chayalim that come out not frum anymore. But there are so many that stay frum and come out religious like they were.

susanstohelit

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 4:40 pm

I just talked to a girl today who did a mechina program from the US (though she didn't end up joining the army afterward) and had an amazing experience. Started off mixed Hebrew/English, then at the end was Hebrew only. She said it prepared the participants well for the army and also allowed them to learn and have fun and make friends. NBN might be able to recommend one for you based on your son's needs if you want him to have a softer landing.

amother

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 5:06 pm

susanstohelit wrote:

Thank you! We will look into as well!

amother

Teal

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 5:42 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Not sure why you needed to put this in. There are many religuous boys who go in a d come out religious. Not just in hesder.

Because of this post I had to just point it out

There are definitely thousands of people who came out frum
But there are definitely thousands of good meaningful people who are striving for the best who came out not frum or much less frum.

I cant believe that people would have a problem to point out to keep this in mind, its definitely a challenge for a person not connected with the community and doesn't have a rabbi to stay as strong as he went in.

Its unbelievable how people here are totally putting a blind eye to this, and encouraging not to worry about it. Are they worried when making a big business deal if it will go through.

Even if they would not try to influence (which is not true, but not the point), the whole environment introduces much of religious struggles even for Israelis that live there, for sure for people from abroad.

All those that denied it, are putting a stumbling block before a fellow friend.

SORRY for this vent.

essie14

Mon, Jul 25 2022, 11:48 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

But it is fear mongering. This is your brother's experience. Of course there are chayalim that come out not frum anymore. But there are so many that stay frum and come out religious like they were.

Agree.
My DS and all his classmates are all still frum. They just got out this year. We are so proud of them. They all hang out in my house a lot and are such great young men.
If any have become lax in their Judaism it probably would have happened anyway. I don't think the army causes it.

juggling

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:33 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

You have statistics to back this up? Comparing against a control group that didn't go to the army? I think this would be very hard to prove.

In the charedi world most kids who go to the army are already on the fringes anyway, so it makes sense that they would grow further from religion while in the army.

In the dati world I am sure some kids become less observant while in the army. But I do think those are kids who were headed in that direction regardless. There is no reason to assume it's *because of* the army.

On the other hand my observation is that most kids who go in strong in their religion, come out just as strong.

People change. Especially in the early adult years. I don't think there's any reason to believe that change happens davka because of the army.

Alternative

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 1:45 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

As juggling said, you need a control group to be able to say this.
Obviously among groups that marry off their kids young, less will become OTD. It's not so easy or tempting to become secular once you have a spouse and maybe a baby on the way.

You need to compare to religious SINGLE people who didn't do the army. How many are still religious at 25.

I am very familiar with dati youth who didn't do the army (girls) and many, many became far less dati in their early twenties. If they had been in the army, you would have blamed that.

Also, as said above, the charedi unit isn't really mainstream charedi. Many of the soldiers in the unit are on the fringes of charedi society as is. You can't use them as an example of anything. (they are great soldiers, I just mean they aren't indicative as a group of the society they came from).

amother

Arcticblue

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 2:14 am

Hiya.
My son was a chayal boded for 3 years. (approx 8 years ago, so not sure if things have changed). He was in the paratroopers brigade.
He made aliya after his service.
The lone soldier program really look after the boys. I felt reassured that his needs were being met (albeit, army style!!).
He didn't need to do ulpan first as his Hebrew was good, although he did do a pre army machal program that was superb. Really prepared him for army life. I am unsure if it is still running but can find out. It was a 3 month program after which they could decide whether to inlist or not. After service he made aliya. He could have done a free BA in certain universities, but he chose his own so had to supplement the fees. He also worked in security after the army which is well paid. Being bilingual has many benefits. He was modern orthodox when he inlisted, and modern orthodox when he finished!! (daati leumi). Best of luck to your son.... And to you!!! Certainly adds a few gray hairs to the Jewish mom!!)

amother

Dahlia

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 3:55 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hi everyone!

My ds is approaching his junior year in high school and is interested in joining the idf after high school. He is a very good student and has always wanted to live in Israel. Because we are out of towners our son attends Public High school but did attend Yeshiva until middle school. He does have some Hebrew language skills but is not fluent. We are also modern orthodox.

Does anyone have any experience with the lone soldier program? Are there any benefits once completing the program? ( such as college tuition breaks in Israel, if my son decides to go to college in Israel). Where do lone soldiers live in Israel?

Is it possible to become a lone soldier after completing college here in America?

Please let us know if you have any advice or experience.

Thank you!

Not my son, but my BIL.

He does not need to be fluent to join a lone soldier program. There are benefits for all olim, as well as for all soldiers after completing army. He will be able (if he is under 26) to study for a three-year degree for free (meaning three years free college tuition). Aliya benefits are frozen during your time in the army, meaning any age limits will go by how old you were when you drafted, not how old you were when you are released. (I didn't serve and BIL didn't do a degree here, so I am not familiar with the exact details, I just know this is how it is for all olim.)

Lone soldiers receive more pay during their time in army than other soldiers, but it is not an enormous sum. I believe they are also entitled to other benefits - I want to say an extra day off each month but I am not sure.

Lone soldiers in Israel live in apartments they share with friends or find housing through a lone soldier program. My BIL lived in Habayit Shel Benji. He is not religious though. Some lone soldiers may stay with extended family, but not many do that.

Yes you can serve as a lone soldier after completing college in America (which is what BIL did). However bear in mind that if you want to make aliya later you will need to get your degree recognized, and not all degrees are recognized. So if your son wants to stay here long term, it would be better for him to complete his degree here, through an Israeli program, if he is able to.

I second the recommendation to speak to NBN and if your DS is religious and not interested in a hesder program then he would likely be headed to Nachal/ Netzach Yehuda.

juggling

Tue, Jul 26 2022, 5:20 am

amother [ Dahlia ] wrote:

I second the recommendation to speak to NBN and if your DS is religious and not interested in a hesder program then he would likely be headed to Nachal/ Netzach Yehuda.

Many religious soldiers serve in mainstream army units. While they might be in the minority as religious soldiers the army has a policy to respect religious needs of soldiers, allow them time to pray every day, etc. There are rabbis in the army who serve as a support system for whoever needs religious services.