PSA: bad guest | Imamother

amother

Sand

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 2:43 pm

amother Quince wrote:

OMG reading this list is stressful and makes me never ever want to be a guest.

As a hostess, my rule is make yourself comfortable. If you want to make conversation, sure. If you'd rather keep your nose in a book, fine with me too. If you're used to helping set up and clean up, great. If you feel too awkward, don't know where anything goes, don't feel comfortable in my kitchen, I totally don't mind.

I'm a bad guest (according to this list) so the least I could do is not judge people for being bad like me.

I'm very introverted so will usually find a book to read instead of getting into convos. My kids are hyper so I try to keep them out of other people's homes if they're the judgy type.

Same! My social anxiety makes it so hard to be a polite guest according to this thread.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 2:46 pm

amother Quince wrote:

Very situation specific.

If shabbos ends late and they have a long drive, I absolutely do not expect them to pack up their kids at 9:30 p.m. and drive back to wherever.

And if having guests grates on my nerves so much I would probably not host that week.

Again, guests don't grate on my nerves. I love having guests. But guests should communicate their plans with their hosts and not just stay till Sunday lunch/dinner without running it by their hosts first. That's just basic manners. If you plan to leave on Sunday, just notify your hosts about it. It's not that difficult. Staying till Sunday also means that the hosts need to prepare a meal for motzei shabbos & Sunday breakfast, they need to know in advance.

amother

Quince

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 2:51 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

How about this.

When they're making arrangements to come, ask them how long they're planning to stay.

They might think it's obvious to YOU that you don't expect them to drive home late at night.

This is something that clearly is important to you and bothers you a whole lot, so speak up instead of seething at your guest for overstaying their welcome.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 2:54 pm

amother Quince wrote:

Don't put your responsibility as a guest, on to the host. That's just entitled. Shabbos doesn't automatically include Sunday. It's like showing up already Thursday for dinner, without notifying the hosts first.
By now I do ask.(Or say that I can't host till Sunday.) But it's really not on the host to ask. It's the guests responsibility to confirm with the host. And I'm not talking about guests that have a long drive. Most of our guests live within a 45 minute drive. Shabbos ends early in the winter. And in the summer, most kids have a long afternoon nap and jump around till midnight.

amother

Quince

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 3:40 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

Don't put your responsibly as a guest, on to the host. That's just entitled. Shabbos doesn't automatically include Sunday. It's like showing up already Thursday for dinner, without notifying the hosts first.
By now I do ask.(Or say that I can't host till Sunday.) But it's really not on the host to ask. It's the guests responsibility to confirm with the host. And I'm not talking about guests that have a long drive. Most of our guests live within a 45 minute drive. Shabbos ends early in the winter. And in the summer, most kids have a long afternoon nap and jump around till midnight.

I don't know your situation. I don't know the circumstances that you're hosting guests. Are they family? Did you invite them or did they ask to come? Are they coming to spend time with you? Because they need to be in the area? Because there's a simcha?

Yes, it IS your responsiblity as a host to inform guests if you're not up to hosting them, and to confirm the details of when they're coming and leaving. If you only want them there from Friday afternoon until right after Shabbos, then say so!! If you don't like them and find them rude and annoying, don't invite them.

I very, very rarely sleep in other people's houses and when I do I try to be as unobtrusive as possible and not leave a mess. But it seems to me from this thread that some people are just looking for things to pick on and complain and judge. Those people should not host. Please. Do us all a favor!!

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 3:44 pm

amother Quince wrote:

So to you, going away for shabbos means from Thursday night till Sunday noon? That's very strange. And entitled.
When we have guests, they generally invite themselves to come, either for a simcha or just because they want to get away.
I'm not looking what to pick on or complain about. But this is a thread about being a good guest, and it is basic manners to inform your hosts if you'll be coming early or extending your stay. Saying that it should be the other way around, is just entitled.
Where did I ever say that I find guests rude and annoying? Expecting basic manners and not being taken advantage of, doesn't mean that I find my guests annoying.
You saying that we should do you all a favor and not host, is you displaying bad manners and entitlement as a guest.

amother

Quince

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 3:51 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

So to you, a shabbos invite means from Thursday night till Sunday noon? That's very strange. And entitled.
I'm not looking what to pick on or complain about. But this is a thread about being a good guest, and it is basic manners to inform your hosts if you'll be coming early or extending your stay. Saying that it should be the other way around, is just entitled.
Where did I ever say that I find guests rude and annoying? Expecting basic manners and not being taken advantage of, doesn't mean that I find my guests annoying.
You saying that we should do you all a favor and not host, is you displaying bad manners and entitlement as a guest.

I don't go anywhere for Shabbos. I don't assume anything. I can't think the last time I was a guest in anyone's house for Shabbos that I wasn't paying for the privilege. We have a big family so I tend to rent a place if I need to be somewhere.

I have hosted a wide range of people under a wide range of circumstances. Some people stay longer, some people stay shorter. If I can't host them for motzei shabbos, I tell them. If I won't be home Friday morning, I tell them.

If I'm hosting a guest, that means I'm hosting them. That means I do my best to overlook minor annoying things and show I'm happy to have them. I'm not looking out for things to pick on and complain about. If I can't do that, if I'm in a very annoyed kvetchy mood, then I don't take guests that week.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 3:52 pm

amother Quince wrote:

That all good, but it doesn't mean that it's a nice thing to do to arrive early or extend your stay when being a guest, without notifying the host. It doesn't mean the host is in an annoyed kvetchy mood. Saying so, is entitled guest behavior. Expecting basic manners, doesn't make one in a kvetchy mood.

amother

Starflower

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 6:08 pm

If you want to be a good guest in my house:

- Bathroom door - open or closed whichever works best for you
- you can keep me company in the kitchen while I work or you can read on the coach or do whatever you want
- please help yourself to whatever you want - if I was going to serve it at another meal, oh well! I'll go to plan B.
- We can always make food stretch, if you decide you want to come, feel free to ask and please feel accept a no if I can't do it.
- take responsibility for your kids, I don't mind them joining my kids but remember they are your responsibility unless otherwise made up
- cleaning up and helping out makes you a great guest, but not doing it does not make you a bad guest in my house
- please make sure you/your kids don't damage my house
- Please don't go through my personal drawers and closet - make yourself at home in my kitchen but please respect my privacy in my bedroom or other rooms that were not allocated to you

In short - I think most things are about communication and surrounding norms...

amother

Yolk

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 6:28 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Because I'm not a hotel. It's a two way street.
I host company, work hard, because I want you to come and also because I want company.
If *you* disappear into your room after the meal and only immerge for the meal, it means I'm doing all the work, yet getting none of the benefit.

Unless you tell them that they are supposed to keep you company they will have no idea. Maybe they think you like hosting because it's a mitzvah?

People seem to be getting so upset because their guests can't read their mind.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 6:34 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

Oh my gosh wow this list
I host for shabbos often and I let my guests feel comfortable
They don’t have to help or whatever and if they want to that’s great too
Why all these rules?
Let people be. And if you don’t like their behavior, don’t have them again

I don't expect guests to help me out. I don't need or want their help. But I do expect parents to care for their children. Most of those things shouldn't even have to be said and should be self understood.
Of course we let our guests be comfortable, this doesn't mean they get to ignore their children all shabbos or cause damage to the house or be inconsiderate.

amother

Honey

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 6:35 pm

I host very often, both my own family and also my neighbors’ guests for simchos. I think I’m a pretty chilled host but most of these ARE basic decency. Rearranging furniture and eating wherever you please are things that are absolutely rude and inconsiderate. I don’t care if my guests help me serve and I generally don’t mind if they stay till Sunday. I understand if you can’t keep little kids quiet all the time.
I’ll just add one more ‘rule’ that once happened to me and I found shocking. If you are a guest by a stranger on shabbos, do not leave your baby sleeping and go to meals without letting the host know.

amother

Yolk

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 6:36 pm

rachelli66 wrote:

This is important. Try not to be late. I am not talking about 5 minutes. I mean over 20 minutes.
Ask the hostess if she wants the floor swept after the meal.
Ask the hostess if she wants help clearing off the table. Some want to do it themselves.

I can't imagine expecting guests to sweep the floor for me. I've done that as a guests but only when they were practically family.

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, Mar 15 2023, 6:48 pm

The Sunday thing is very applicable when hosting for a simcha. It's assumed in the tri state area, and I imagine others, that you're hosting until Motzai Shabbos. It's assumed by the OOT guests with long drives that they are staying until Sunday, and is likely assumed by the baalei simchah. But often nobody actually says this, because each takes their default as a given. So yes, clarify. And simchah guests should ask for the best way for them to get into the house if they are coming back late.

Re rifling through cabinets- I assume my guests will go through every cabinet and drawer in the bathrooms they are indicated to use. Realistically, if someone needs a bandaid or feminine products or even Motrin at 2am, they will look, and will take. If there's something I don't want them to take from or see, I move it.

OOT guests who show up at zman may have been in the car for three hours or more, and planned to leave earlier and shower after the traveling, but it didn't happen or they hit major traffic or too many stops. I still shower everyone early when I'm planning to arrive in the afternoon at all, but Dh often doesn't, and I can't control that.