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-> Computers, Phones and Devices
-> Social Media
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amother
Cherry
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 Tue, May 30 2023, 2:07 pm
| amother Aqua wrote: | I can't really answer your question because I don't agree with the whole premise. I didn't ask a rav nor would I ever think to, I do share my face on instagram.
That said, you don't have to show your face on Instagram. Film your desk, your hands doing something, etc and do voiceover. There are many successful brands that don't show faces. |
I think they went to the rav because of her husband being uncomfortable. Not sure she would have done it otherwise… am I correct?
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amother
OP
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Tue, May 30 2023, 2:50 pm
| amother Cherry wrote: | | I think they went to the rav because of her husband being uncomfortable. Not sure she would have done it otherwise… am I correct? |
This is correct. I never dreamed I’d ask about this. It seemed obvious to me that if I’m tznius there is no issue… but DH felt otherwise
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DustyDiamonds
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Tue, May 30 2023, 2:52 pm
OP, this sounds really tough.
I can see both sides. And I have a huge Instagram following.
מה טובו אהליך יעקב is an important concept.
I wonder what the topic you’d be talking about is, or what you’d be demonstrating. I can see videos of how to make a bed to be considered more problematic than videos about how to cook. Does the subject matter factor into this question?
And yet, I wonder if Devora the Shofetes would’ve been banned by many of today’s rabbis. Perhaps Mordechai should’ve have been talking to Esther after she married the King? And the Torah describes the party Avrohom made when Yitzchock was weaned, couldn’t it just have written that they gave him an upsherin rather than making an announcement that could lead men to think about Sarah’s breasts?
Had smart phones and Instagram been available at Krias Yam suf, would it have been forbidden to film Miriam singing and dancing to post on a women’s-only account?
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singleagain
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Tue, May 30 2023, 2:54 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | This is correct. I never dreamed I’d ask about this. It seemed obvious to me that if I’m tznius there is no issue… but DH felt otherwise |
I feel like this is more of an interpersonal/ couple issue more than a halachic issue. I mean I understand that your rabbi said otherwise, but you can understand why many people on this thread are very shocked that this was even asked and brought up
By the way, I do apologize if anything I had said felt like bashing but also please understand. This topic is a very hot button sensitive issue and people are going to react how they're going to react.
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amother
Slateblue
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Tue, May 30 2023, 4:20 pm
OP, please look up the word "perverted" in the dictionary. It does not mean "aroused by any woman who is not his wife." That's entirely normal if frowned on by our religion. As a PP said, calling all men perverts because they are aroused by women is demeaning. Perverted is when a person gets
sickshual gratification from peculiar or taboo subjects or acts, such as children, animals, inanimate objects, waste body fluids, unwilling partners, mating in front of an audience and so on. Men are wired to be aroused by normal women and even by the thought of women. That's not perversion; that's called having a normal active libido. Women have them too, though usually to a lesser extent than men. Not many women go off in orgiastic raptures watching the male announcers on the six o'clock news, but probably some do.
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amother
cornflower
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Tue, May 30 2023, 4:23 pm
I think this is a question YOU should be asking your rov and asking everything you asked here.
If you feel your rav is not down to earth enough, find someone you are comfortable with.
There is a lot of heavy language on this thread. Strong.
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amother
Cherry
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Tue, May 30 2023, 5:48 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m really upset right now.
I have a service based business and using Instagram helps me reach a lot of clients. I’m still in the starter phase of my business, and now I can’t use Instagram to promote my service. Why you want to know?
Because I need to film myself talking and DH was very uncomfortable with it, so we agreed to ask his rebbe. His rebbe listened to me and heard me out and said he’ll ask a shaila for us because it’s really not simple. Even if I’m totally tznius and say it’s an all women’s platform, men will watch me and it’s not so simple to just say it’s their problem….
He got back to us and said that his rav doesn’t want to pasken because it’s really not a simple question…and so he’ll ask someone else.
So now I’m waiting again but I just feel so resentful. Why do I have to stifle myself and my business just because there are men out there who are doing the wrong thing?
I want chizzuk and words that will comfort me. Please don’t bash rabbanim. DH’s rebbe is not extreme at all, he’s just super aware of what goes on for guys and he’s trying to be realistic.
This situation is also making me have such a hard time understanding how then, it’s possible, that there are so many good and tznius ladies on Instagram who are spreading Torah! Is it wrong?!?!
I need a good perspective
TIA |
I don’t know what service you are offering in your business but is it possible to do a voiceover with other images relevant to your service? Basically use your voice but not your face in an intentional way that doesn’t look like you are hiding your face for tzniut?
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write on
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Tue, May 30 2023, 5:54 pm
I haven't posted on Imamother in years, but I just came on for a minute and saw this post and I feel like I have to comment because it is such an important topic.
Riva Pomerantz here, and I, too, went to my Rav to ask him about posting videos and pictures of myself on social media and even on my websites. My Rav, whom I highly respect, told me only to show pictures of myself where the audience would be exclusively female. Given the fact that the social media algorithms give much more weight to posts with pictures and videos, I went back to my Rav a little while later and asked (chutzpah'dik me!) whether there was a "kulah" I could take advantage of to show my picture. My Rav, who has a quick wit, said, "Sure! I'll give you a kulah! You'll have more hatzlacha and siyata di'Shmaya doing less work--ie. by not having to post videos and pictures of yourself on social media!" :-)
This was a few years back. In the three years since, I have built and launched three businesses and I wouldn't say that it's been magical nissim, but b"H a "slow and steady wins the race" type of hatzlacha.
But recently, I re-explored the p'sak because I just launched a new platform, a much bigger business than ever before, and I found myself REALLY teetering on caving in. After all, a "real" business demands a "real-world" business plan which would seem to include all the usual, tried-and-true techniques--ie. showing my picture and videos. It didn't help things when I recently met with a big influencer where the conversation turned to a very candid look at the advantages of showing my picture and I really felt myself slipping. I started rationalizing things, exploring the idea of maybe talking the whole thing over with a different Rav... you get the (women-only!) picture 😄.
And then something happened that really gave me pause: a certain well-respected Torah teacher posted a picture of herself on social media showing her hair in a way that was conspicuously downgraded. I am not judging this woman, and I have no idea if social media is what brought about her change, but it would seem that the pressure, the competition, the desire to look better, younger, and more perfect are formidable forces. I do not know if I trust myself to play the game which is, I would imagine, playing with fire in a certain sense.
I get stories from readers all over the world every single day and am in constant contact with professionals from all fields for the books and articles I write. I am hearing from so many people about the devastating effects of social media on women's self-esteem, parenting, and marriages. I know that the culture is pervasive and there is significant cognitive dissonance which keeps us from wanting to face the truth. I also know that I'm not qualified to weigh in on it, having never entered the nisayon myself (I don't even own a smartphone!), so I may be missing an important angle here, but I do think it's worth thinking about.
Finally, I remind myself--constantly!--that hatzlacha, which is just a more elegant way of saying "making lots of money" 😁, is not linear. It's not an A+B=C proposition. No one can point to the Instagram likes and follow the trail directly to the bank, especially because you only get to play one side; you can't know if you would have made or lost a sale if you hadn't shown your picture or video. Morah, Rebbitzen Ausband, zt"l, used to tell us in Yavne Seminary, "Never make the mistake of thinking that the money that comes into your bank account has anything to do with the work you do." We just have to trust that our Divine CEO will send us the hatzlacha and bracha that's best for us and I, personally, don't want to compromise my values in the process.
As an aside, I find it bizarre and frankly insulting to read about the "poor women hiding their faces" backlash--championed not by the women who have made this choice by choosing the Rav who has advised them in this way, but by others who have decided for them that it is unacceptable! The premise is just laughable at best; patronizing and egregious at worst. For people like me, it comes down to a very simple, very straightforward fact: my Rav, who I highly respect, told me not to do it. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. He also told me I can eat in the pot I thought I had treifed up. It isn't repression or oppression or suppression. In fact, I write words that go out to 100,000 readers a week so I doubt anyone could really call me "erased"! Bottom line: There should be no place for politicizing da'as Torah and certainly no dispensation for casting aspersions on the p'sakim received by others (both those that are more meikil and those that are more machmir), even if your own Rav says something different.
Good luck, OP! 💗💓💓
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amother
Eggshell
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:15 pm
Riva,
While I appreciate your well written and thought out post, I still wonder…. At what point did looking at a womens picture become assur? Our religion has been hijacked by chumrahs that have little basis in halacha. It’s all “hashkafah”. When we speak to people that used to live on the LES we hear stories about Rav Moshe zt”l who would stop, speak to (gasp) a woman, inquire about her sick mother/father/child etc… and look her in the eye. There was no running away or hiding because a woman was passing by. A picture in a book of a woman was normal until all of a sudden it’s not frum enough. It’s all we are doing is creating an overly sexualized male portion of our community where even pictures of little girls is assur.
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amother
Seagreen
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:36 pm
Op, here is my perspective. Parnassah is destined rosh hashana. If you truly beleive that, then you know that whether you post or don't post videos of yourself you will make the same amount of money. ( obviously it's difficult to be on that level of faith and I am not faulting you if you are not on that level)
On another note, if I ever had a situation where DH wanted to ask a shailah and I knew I wouldn't listen to the answer then I told him not to ask.
Also I want to add that personally, I have a service based business and I don't use Instagram. I asked a rav and was told not to use it altogether. And I listened. And I never regretted that decision for a second.
Only good will come out of listening to daas torah.
Hatzlacha Rabbah!
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amother
Peach
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:37 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m really upset right now.
I have a service based business and using Instagram helps me reach a lot of clients. I’m still in the starter phase of my business, and now I can’t use Instagram to promote my service. Why you want to know?
Because I need to film myself talking and DH was very uncomfortable with it, so we agreed to ask his rebbe. His rebbe listened to me and heard me out and said he’ll ask a shaila for us because it’s really not simple. Even if I’m totally tznius and say it’s an all women’s platform, men will watch me and it’s not so simple to just say it’s their problem…. |
Can you just do posts of pictures and info of your products/buisness stuff and not of yourself talking/anything with your face in it? That might remove his concern and still give you the opportunity to use the media
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amother
Molasses
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:40 pm
| amother Eggshell wrote: | Riva,
While I appreciate your well written and thought out post, I still wonder…. At what point did looking at a womens picture become assur? Our religion has been hijacked by chumrahs that have little basis in halacha. It’s all “hashkafah”. When we speak to people that used to live on the LES we hear stories about Rav Moshe zt”l who would stop, speak to (gasp) a woman, inquire about her sick mother/father/child etc… and look her in the eye. There was no running away or hiding because a woman was passing by. A picture in a book of a woman was normal until all of a sudden it’s not frum enough. It’s all we are doing is creating an overly sexualized male portion of our community where even pictures of little girls is assur. |
I used to read the old Jewish Observers. The women pictured looked very different than the women I see in, for example the Chabad women’s magazine, even though they are officially tznius. I really believe that this change is related to the change in appearance, and also- pictures are more clear, colors more vibrant.
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amother
Peach
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:42 pm
| amother Tangerine wrote: | [u]
Are you sure the bolded is true?
I'm not advising on what the OP should do. But it would seem to be pretty naïve to suggest that hashem runs the world in a way where people who "do the right thing" avoid hardship. It's the old why do bad things happen to go people question. But it seems pretty clear that often times people are doing the right thing and get slapped in the face. It also seems pretty clear that sometimes people who do the wrong thing are rewarded in this world.
This is just reality. |
I think what she means by saying "you won't lose by doing the right thing", doesn't mean bad won't come of doing the right thing.
It means that the bad would have happened anyway, whether you do the right or wrong thing.
If something is supposed to happen to you, it'll happen whether you do the right thing or the wrong thing.
So you may as well always do the right thing, since what is decreed for you will happen anyway
Doing the right thing won't always prevent it, and doing what's wrong won't prevent it either.
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Ima_Shelli
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:46 pm
| amother Molasses wrote: | | I used to read the old Jewish Observers. The women pictured looked very different than the women I see in, for example the Chabad women’s magazine, even though they are officially tznius. I really believe that this change is related to the change in appearance, and also- pictures are more clear, colors more vibrant. |
So post unclear, non vibrant pictures of women who WANT to be pictured. (People like Riva excepted of course.)
The point is that this is not a clear-cut issue. Plenty of chashuve women in the not-so-distant past have spoken in public in front of men (Gasp!). Plenty of chashuve women have been fine with being pictured in magazines and elsewhere.
Anyway, you asked, possibly to make your husband happy, I would not have but I do think you can ask for an in depth discussion of the why’s when the Rav returns with an answer.
And if it’s really hard for you, explore the wonderful alternatives suggested above by other posters. I’m into finding a Judaism that works for you in the framework of halacha. Even if there are some hashkafic views that disagree with whatever it is. I drive, for example, happily. I know that many do not. I know that there is nothing halachically wrong with my doing so. End of story.
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Cressel
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:47 pm
| Ima_Shelli wrote: | I wouldn’t have asked a Rav about this.
Once you ask, if this is your hashkafah (to ask this sort of question to a Rav) you’re kind of in the boat where you need to listen. At least that’s how I see it.
I don’t ask on things I don’t think are a question. If a creepy man wants to watch my video that is fully on him IMHO. It would never occur to me to ask otherwise. But kol hakavod if you’re the sort of person who wants to hand over that decision making to someone else. I fully admit that I am not. |
You need to do the right thing even if you DON'T ask a Shailah.
Avoiding Daas Torah don't remove the responsibility.
Thinking "I'm juts gonna do this and hope its okay, I don't wanna ask a Rav because I KNOW that the answer is gonna be 'no' and I don't want the answer to be 'no'" is certainly not the right approach.
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amother
OP
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:50 pm
| write on wrote: | I haven't posted on Imamother in years, but I just came on for a minute and saw this post and I feel like I have to comment because it is such an important topic.
Riva Pomerantz here, and I, too, went to my Rav to ask him about posting videos and pictures of myself on social media and even on my websites. My Rav, whom I highly respect, told me only to show pictures of myself where the audience would be exclusively female. Given the fact that the social media algorithms give much more weight to posts with pictures and videos, I went back to my Rav a little while later and asked (chutzpah'dik me!) whether there was a "kulah" I could take advantage of to show my picture. My Rav, who has a quick wit, said, "Sure! I'll give you a kulah! You'll have more hatzlacha and siyata di'Shmaya doing less work--ie. by not having to post videos and pictures of yourself on social media!" :-)
This was a few years back. In the three years since, I have built and launched three businesses and I wouldn't say that it's been magical nissim, but b"H a "slow and steady wins the race" type of hatzlacha.
But recently, I re-explored the p'sak because I just launched a new platform, a much bigger business than ever before, and I found myself REALLY teetering on caving in. After all, a "real" business demands a "real-world" business plan which would seem to include all the usual, tried-and-true techniques--ie. showing my picture and videos. It didn't help things when I recently met with a big influencer where the conversation turned to a very candid look at the advantages of showing my picture and I really felt myself slipping. I started rationalizing things, exploring the idea of maybe talking the whole thing over with a different Rav... you get the (women-only!) picture 😄.
And then something happened that really gave me pause: a certain well-respected Torah teacher posted a picture of herself on social media showing her hair in a way that was conspicuously downgraded. I am not judging this woman, and I have no idea if social media is what brought about her change, but it would seem that the pressure, the competition, the desire to look better, younger, and more perfect are formidable forces. I do not know if I trust myself to play the game which is, I would imagine, playing with fire in a certain sense.
I get stories from readers all over the world every single day and am in constant contact with professionals from all fields for the books and articles I write. I am hearing from so many people about the devastating effects of social media on women's self-esteem, parenting, and marriages. I know that the culture is pervasive and there is significant cognitive dissonance which keeps us from wanting to face the truth. I also know that I'm not qualified to weigh in on it, having never entered the nisayon myself (I don't even own a smartphone!), so I may be missing an important angle here, but I do think it's worth thinking about.
Finally, I remind myself--constantly!--that hatzlacha, which is just a more elegant way of saying "making lots of money" 😁, is not linear. It's not an A+B=C proposition. No one can point to the Instagram likes and follow the trail directly to the bank, especially because you only get to play one side; you can't know if you would have made or lost a sale if you hadn't shown your picture or video. Morah, Rebbitzen Ausband, zt"l, used to tell us in Yavne Seminary, "Never make the mistake of thinking that the money that comes into your bank account has anything to do with the work you do." We just have to trust that our Divine CEO will send us the hatzlacha and bracha that's best for us and I, personally, don't want to compromise my values in the process.
As an aside, I find it bizarre and frankly insulting to read about the "poor women hiding their faces" backlash--championed not by the women who have made this choice by choosing the Rav who has advised them in this way, but by others who have decided for them that it is unacceptable! The premise is just laughable at best; patronizing and egregious at worst. For people like me, it comes down to a very simple, very straightforward fact: my Rav, who I highly respect, told me not to do it. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. He also told me I can eat in the pot I thought I had treifed up. It isn't repression or oppression or suppression. In fact, I write words that go out to 100,000 readers a week so I doubt anyone could really call me "erased"! Bottom line: There should be no place for politicizing da'as Torah and certainly no dispensation for casting aspersions on the p'sakim received by others (both those that are more meikil and those that are more machmir), even if your own Rav says something different.
Good luck, OP! 💗💓💓 |
Riva, thank you so much for weighing in. Your words really resonated with me.
Thank you for taking the time to write it out (although it’s what you do for a living)
Hashem should bless you!
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Ima_Shelli
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:50 pm
| Cressel68 wrote: | You need to do the right thing even if you DON'T ask a Shailah.
Avoiding Daas Torah don't remove the responsibility.
Thinking "I'm juts gonna do this and hope its okay, I don't wanna ask a Rav because I KNOW that the answer is gonna be 'no' and I don't want the answer to be 'no'" is certainly not the right approach. |
I don’t ask a Rav when there is no halachic issue involved and I am clear on my personal hashkafos about the issue.
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amother
Banana
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:51 pm
| amother Eggshell wrote: | Riva,
While I appreciate your well written and thought out post, I still wonder…. At what point did looking at a womens picture become assur? Our religion has been hijacked by chumrahs that have little basis in halacha. It’s all “hashkafah”. When we speak to people that used to live on the LES we hear stories about Rav Moshe zt”l who would stop, speak to (gasp) a woman, inquire about her sick mother/father/child etc… and look her in the eye. There was no running away or hiding because a woman was passing by. A picture in a book of a woman was normal until all of a sudden it’s not frum enough. It’s all we are doing is creating an overly sexualized male portion of our community where even pictures of little girls is assur. |
Not to mention, R' Shmuel Kamenetzky clearly was ok with a family picture including his daughters and wife being featured in the recent Pesach edition of Mishpacha. People can have hashkafa or sensitivities but if the RY is ok with it, it clearly is not against halacha.
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amother
Mint
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:52 pm
op
this is really a personal question between you your husband and your rov,
v zeh hu
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amother
Peach
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Tue, May 30 2023, 6:54 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I hear what you’re saying. From my understanding, mainly because of what DH tells me, many men really are perverted. And I don’t mean it in a negative way. I mean it in the way that Hashem made men. Women can easily become s-xual to them. It’s the way they were created.
Again, this is my understanding. I’m not a man and can’t understand how or why it is so. But based on the way DH is and what he tells me, I feel that men get easily turned on by seeing women be passionate and expressive. It’s nasty to me, but what can I do. Maybe it’s just DH and so he’s extra sensitive when it comes to me being out there… |
I'm glad at least that you understand that this is how Hashem made men. Unfortunately, many women don't want to admit it.
Numerous women are reluctant to acknowledge this fact about men, and instead, they persist in criticizing Daas Torah.
These women prefer to shame Daas Torah rather than acknowledging this reality.
I'm so glad also that you understand that this is NOT a negative thing about men. Hashem created them this way for a reason.
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