Gifted children in Charedi schools

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:32 am

Just from googling around I see that you have a מרכז למצוינות in beit shemesh. Ask around, maybe one of your friends knows something. I know there are frum programs in the Gush and Yerushalayim. I know people whose children have gone to both.

amother

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:32 am

salt wrote:

Elemntary school finishes latest 2:30. She can learn a new language, learn a musical instrument, by herself, online, or with a tutor.
Or she can go ahead by herself - buy her next year's math book and let her go ahead.

I think as long as a kid doesn't play up in school and mess around and disturb the class, even if they are bored, they should just consider themselves blessed - they should be thankful that they don't have to spend hours learning for tests and then get a measily 60%.

They can do other stuff at home for enrichment. Ride a bike, read books, babysit other kids - brains don't need to be stretched - why stress her out?

She finishes later than that.
I strongly disagree with your opinion. Going ahead by herself does not help her learn how to learn. A tool she will need later in life.
And just because she has tons of zitz fleish she should bore her way through 12 years of school? Of course we are all thankful, but being bored and easily getting 110% will actually not help her learn to feel the blessing of her gift. If she never FEELS the feeling of working hard and reaping fruits how why should she?
Her brain should be challenged at its level just like any other child.
She won't be stressed when adequately challenged. she will be happy and engaged.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:36 am

amother Birch wrote:

Doesn't it have to be arranged through the school? I don't think regular charadi beis yakov are part of it. But, correct me if I'm wrong. If you send you send to a mamlachti charadi school or chabad or sefardi school then they do it.

Usually it's through the school. I'm not charedi and I send to mamad so I don't have all those details. But I think if OP wants she can call Machon Szold and see if there is a way to take the test outside of school. She will need to do some research for her specific situation, but I thought it would be helpful for her to know that a program exists and if she wants to try to get her daughter in, it won't hurt to make a few phone calls.

amother

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:37 am

salt wrote:

Yes enrichment, but I don't see the point of these programs that, for example, get you to 5-yechidot in bagrut by 9th grade, and then a math/science degree by 11th grade.
Maybe for a one in a million super genius kid, but not a regular smart school kid.

I didn't say sit bored for 12 years - I said, enjoy finding school easy, and do other things after school to keep you interested.

But she enjoys learning. Much more than other things. She already does many extra curriculum activities.
But during the 8 hours she is in school she could be thriving, instead she is just going through the motions.

Looks, we are all grateful and of course kids that are struggling to keep up should get the extra help. but your posts really bother me because this is exactly why the charedi schools don't work with these children.
All I hear from her teachers is B"H be thankful, send her to activities after school....

salt

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:41 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

There is מחוננים one day a week through משרד החינוך. There is also מצטיינים which is after school. You have to test into it. The tests for next year were in March but maybe you can try for the year after. I don't know exactly what the program is like in beit shemesh, but in other cities with big frum populations, you can do a totally frum program - near us it's separate boys and girls, they all wear skirts and daven in the morning, the teachers are frum and tznius. It's not charedi by me, but look into the program in beit shemesh, could be it leans more charedi because of the population. If it's an after school program that's girls only do you need it to be totally charedi?

Are you talking about Ofek? I wouldn't say it's for 'mechunanim' - it's just for the top kids of the class, that can miss a day of lessons easiily and catch up by themselves.
Most of the time they are still in school with the rest of their class.

The ofek classes are like extra chugim - interesting science expeiriments, chess, learning about outer-space, etc - I'm speaking from what I've been told my by sister-in-law who's kids are in it.
I'm not sure if it's 'learning how to learn' - I'm not sure what that means exactly.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:41 am

amother OP wrote:

For this exact reason, I signed my gifted child up for a competitive sport that she did not have any special skills in. It has been so good for her. She works very very hard to keep up and improve her skills and she is nowhere near one of the best in the chug. I wanted her to experience working hard and staying committed to something that is a challenge, and also for her to see that there are so many different types of intelligence.

We also buy her all kinds of games like sudoku or those puzzles where you have weird shapes and you need to match the picture.

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:42 am

From the research that I did, there isn't any options besides for private tutoring. My son is taken out of class 4 days a week for enrichment. I would love to hear of any good chareidi options for brilliant kids.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:44 am

salt wrote:

Ofek is מחוננים in Yerushalayim. You have to test in. Maybe your sister was trying to be modest and didn't tell you her kids are gifted. Yes, only one day a week, but being with other kids like them who chap everything quickly and have similar interests is a great experience. They learn subjects they don't have in school.

amother

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:47 am

salt wrote:

Learning how to learn is learning when and how to seek outside assistance when you cannot master something alone.
I like the example of the competitive sport.
My was learning a new skill in chug this year. I was watching from the side. She was catching on real quickly but was doing it messily. But because she wasn't used to needing outside instruction she was actually falling behind on the nuances that are important.
When they spend 8 hours a day finishing the books on their own instead of listening to the teacher- because they don't need to, they are missing important skills.
I wish people would understand that Mechunanim are not just 'extra smart' kids.

salt

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:54 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

No, my sil says her kids are bright. But there are a few kids from each class that go - they are not all 'gifted', they are smart.

If there are no such parallel programs in the charedi system, a 'gifted' child can go to a chess chug, or science chug, or a music chug something else of that sort. Even if the other kids are not all charedi - it could be an option to consider.

balance

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 1:58 am

1. Ofek is not charedi
2. the charedi program bikurim mentioned above is online not in person and mostly run by chabad for chabad
3. there are a few schools who run after school programs for gifted kids
4. you have missed acceptance for this coming school year, if you are past kita gimmel, possibly totally missed it
5. chugim will never give a gifted kid what they need. They need to meet other gifted kids, and they need an academic curriculum which focuses on depth not breadth.

DrMom

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 2:02 am

salt wrote:

Getting a bagrut in 10th grade is NOT what the mechunanim program is about. It is about offering challenging enrichment outside of the regular school curriculum.

There are programs through universities which identify talented kids and offer accelerated math or science programs and the chance to earn a degree. That is different from the mechunanim program. And it is much more common than 1 in a million.

salt

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 2:07 am

DrMom wrote:

So I am saying I agree with the idea of enrichment programs and don't like the sound of university programs that offer kids accelerated math or science programs.

But, I think the enrichment programs (eg. ofek) are not as amazing as they make themselves out to be - they are chugim during school time - a time for smart kids to get together with other smart kids and learn interesting things.

amother

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 2:09 am

balance wrote:

5. chugim will never give a gifted kid what they need. They need to meet other gifted kids, and they need an academic curriculum which focuses on depth not breadth.

Thanks for the tips and validation.
Of course chugim are not giving her what she needs.
In many chugim she has been moved up to a grade or two above her age but emotionally she is a regular 9 year old. (who sometimes struggles socially more then a 9 year old because she doesn't know how to relate.)

dinglehopper

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 2:18 am

I was in the gifted program in school growing up. I have a child who did the gifted program here for a few years. The issue is that when you hit high school, you miss a lot being pulled out one day per week. And the schools will schedule trips and other fun stuff on the day you aren't there, despite speaking with the school.

So the gifted program is great and valuable but it's all a balance. I prefer that my child also thrive socially as I know academically, it is less of an issue.

Smart and gifted are two different things and a good gifted program understands that.

And yes, in Israel you can test after third grade as well. My child tested in sixth grade as were not here in second grade when the whole country gets tested.

DrMom

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 3:17 am

salt wrote:

You are mixing up many things.

Ofek is not Mechunanim. Both are enrichment programs, but Ofek is far less selective and limited in scope.

As for the early university programs -- why do you keep bringing this up? Nobody here is talking about that except you.

amother

Chambray

Sun, Jun 25 2023, 4:38 am

dinglehopper wrote:

Following this thread because my 4th grade son may be gifted or only borderline gifted, but he's actually doing fine in school atm (clearly top of the class but not complaining of boredom as he has in other years - depends on the year/teacher).
Kids are tested for giftedness in 2nd grade? Where and what is the standardized test?
Thanks