Passing a school bus ticket question

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amother

Pink

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 11:30 am

MrsDash wrote:

It's too sensitive of a subject to do anything about. Kids have died horrifically from merely trying to get on or off their school bus.

Whether there were technicalities surrounding the incident is irrelevant.

Don't fight.

Pay the ticket.

It’s also a huge money maker for the company that installed the cameras on the busses.

I would personally attempt to fight it, not on the $250, rather the consequence of a second infraction.

Cheiny

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 12:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

I got a ticket in the mail for passing a school bus with its stop sign out. The stop sign has a camera that automatically takes a picture of cars passing it. It's a $250 ticket and I'm thinking about fighting it but before I take off from work to do so, I'm hoping to get opinions here as to whether my excuse is valid or not.

I was surprised to receive the ticket in the mail because I wouldn't ignore a school bus stop sign. I was able to watch a video of the incident online which is time stamped. I see that it's a two way street and I'm approaching the bus from the opposite direction. The bus puts out its stop sign as I'm driving towards it. Approximately one second later I drive past the stop sign.

My argument is that a driver should be given adequate time to stop and shouldn't be forced to slam on the brakes. The question is what's adequate. Well a yellow light in a 25 MPH zone is required to last 3 seconds before turning red. Less than that is inadequate. I feel the same standard should apply here.

Does this seem reasonable or am I wasting my time? Thank you.

No. You’re wasting your time.

Cheiny

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 12:49 pm

amother Snapdragon wrote:

Why? We're not supposed to slow down whenever we see a school bus. Yellow lights flashing on the school bus, indicates that we need to slow down. Red indicates that we need to stop. No lights flashing, no need to slow down.

I think her intended point was that when you see a bus be prepared for him to put out his stop sign so you’re not caught off guard. One can generally tell when they’re slowing down that they’re about to do so…

gr82no

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 3:30 pm

I haven’t seen anyone post so far how when a child should cross the street to the bus.
I have years of practice so I know it quite well.
1- wait for the bus to make a complete stop
2- wait for the stop sign to come out
3- wait for a signal from the bus driver that it’s safe
4- check and cross at a safe distance.

Ema of 5

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 3:47 pm

gr82no wrote:

Not only should the child wait for all of that from the bus, they should also wait until cars have stopped. Just because the stop sign is out doesn’t mean the cars will stop.

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 4:24 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Not only should the child wait for all of that from the bus, they should also wait until cars have stopped. Just because the stop sign is out doesn’t mean the cars will stop.

Cars come from nowhere and it’s hard to see the cars over the big bus

Where I live, I’ve literally seen a car sidle past a stopped bus on the side of the door where the kids get out between the door and the sidewalk!!! It’s horrific

gootlfriends

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 4:29 pm

I got a ticket recently. I was nowhere near the bus but I just paid it. From their perspective I was. It could be I didn't realize. I never intentionally pass a bus.

yyygc

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 5:22 pm

FWD Have you received a citation for passing a school bus? A new initiative in New York is equipping school bus stop-arms with cameras to ticket drivers who illegally pass the bus. These cameras do not account for circumstances in which it is legal to pass. Tickets from stop-arm cameras may be infringing on your civil rights! Fill out the following form https://forms.gle/pnzT1fzQCv64TdmA9 and contact Robert Tolchin, Esq. of The Berkman Law Office LLC at 718-855-3627.

Apparently it’s good to fill it out even if you’ve paid the fine

yyygc

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 5:24 pm

That is a link to a lawyer who is doing a class action suit bc the bus cameras are not giving enough time to stop. It’s a legitimate excuse but you might not win when you fight. He plans to return the money to each person who paid for a ticket from the settlement. A lot of the tickets being issued are showing from the video that THEY upload on their website that the drivers are already approaching the bus and would not be able to stop in time once the sign goes out.

Ema of 5

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 5:25 pm

yyygc wrote:

Asking because I really don’t know. Aside from being on the opposite side of the street with a median or other divider, are there any other circumstances in which it would be legal to pass a bus with its stop sign out?

yyygc

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 5:37 pm

I don’t know of any reasons but I did not write that- it was passed along to me because I got a ticket and the sign came out as I was already passing the bus. I tried to fight it and ultimately they added a late fee so it became $275 so I called the lawyer and he said to pay it and hopefully I’ll get it back. He said if I don’t pay eventually they can impound my car.

amother

Orchid

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 5:51 pm

I got one of these tickets recently too. I was on a main road driving next to a bus and he stopped as I was passing him. The video footage shows the back license plate of my car not the front. I spoke to the law firm and they told me that no one got court dates yet for these tickets so I sent back that I am not taking liability and we will
See what happens…

WhatFor

Tue, Aug 01 2023, 7:30 pm

MrsDash wrote:

I agree with the first half of your first sentence but I think this leaves it open to so much exploitation. This is precisely the kind of thinking that causes people to fall victim to scams or fraud. You take a genuinely tragic, terrifying cause, you say you're raising money for the cause (or fining people for endangering the cause, in this case), and then when someone questions the legitimacy of what's happening, they're gaslighted and accused of being insensitive to the tragedy/cause, instead of the bad actor having to justify their activities.

Whether it's a private or public company issuing these fines, it's not okay to fine people simply for existing in the same sphere as a school bus. I agree with those saying there needs to be sufficient lead time for someone to stop, just like a yellow light. This is a justifiable argument not only because it allows drivers to actually obey the law, but also because maybe a bus driver should be obligated to wait at least three seconds from pulling out the stop sign before they open the door. If a driver is actually enabling children to run into traffic while they're still pulling out the sign, or before giving sufficient time for passing cars to stop, they should be the ones incurring the fine; they are the danger to the children.

For those saying you need to leave sufficient space, you cannot create space between you and a bus coming in the opposite direction. To those saying you need to always slow when you see a bus even with the stop sign in, this is actually probably increasing danger on the road. A driver should be going at the speed of traffic and within the speed limit, unless there's an actual reason to slow. Every time you deviate from the norm, you cause others to do so as well, increasing the chances that something can go wrong. In some situations, like for a red light, a pedestrian crossing, a stopped bus, the risk of slowing/stopping makes sense. But you don't drive around short-stopping or driving erratically just because you see a bus passing in an oncoming traffic lane. I wonder how many people suggesting these things actually drive.

amother

Hunter

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 5:36 am

WhatFor wrote:

I was just about to say this. Based on the responses, I would think many don't drive.

- You can't slow down every time you pass a bus. There's a good reason why the bus is supposed to flash the yellow lights before stopping. Also consider the number of buses on the roads in our community and what traffic this would create (traffic that would ensnarl the school buses as well).

- You can't slam on your brakes in one second. The car behind you may not react in that same instance, and that's a high risk for an accident.

- It's the bus driver's responsibility to check the area before opening the door. He needs to make sure that the cars in the other lanes have been given an opportunity to clear the area, and that there are no other hazards around.

OP did nothing wrong. Even if she would have slammed on her brakes, the car would have stopped halfway across the length of the bus. It sounds more like there was an inattentive bus driver, than any wrongdoing on her part. She should call up the one who is in charge of the bus transportation and raise this with them. That bus driver is a danger to the children.

Though even if OP is in the right here, fighting something like this is really tough. The courts don't listen to reason, their goal is to collect as many fines as they possibly can.

amother

Celeste

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 5:44 am

Yikes
Very informative context

amother

Cherry

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 6:25 am

amother Hunter wrote:

I was just about to say this. Based on the responses, I would think many don't drive.

I wanted to say that but was scared I'd be labeled anti chassidim or something. Those posters clearly don't drive. They're lacking an understanding of how driving works.

Ema of 5

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 6:55 am

amother Cherry wrote:

I wanted to say that but was scared I'd be labeled anti chassidim or something. Those posters clearly don't drive. They're lacking an understanding of how driving works.

Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they don’t drive. I am actually currently sitting in my car. I’ve been driving for almost 25 years. I stand by what I said, you need to be aware of your surroundings when you drive. Unless you are on a street with more than 2 lanes (one in each direction) where you may not be able to see all the way across, if you see a school bus, you need to be aware that you might have to stop. Yes, the bus SHOULD flash its yellow lights as it starts to slow down, but a driver is not excused from being aware just because someone else didn’t do the right thing.

amother

Lightcoral

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 7:02 am

I haven’t read the whole thread, but school zones and buses are taken very seriously. Years ago DH had a business meeting in a different state from where we lived. He drove there. When he got off the highway, he was pulled over for speeding in a school zone. He was on the ramp, coming off the highway. He told the officer he isn’t from the area, and asked where the school was. The school was about 6 lanes away with at least two cement barriers. It was school, parking lot for school, access road for school, cement divider, two or three lane street, cement barrier, two or three lane street in the opposite direction, ramp from the highway. And it was the middle of the summer and the school was closed.
I’m sure that having out of state plates didn’t help. Just always be aware of your surroundings.

amother

Cherry

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 7:05 am

Ema of 5 wrote:

I wasn't referring to your posts at all. In fact I agree with you.

MrsDash

Wed, Aug 02 2023, 8:19 am

I live in the midwest where driving is essential for survival Very Happy

From what I've read in this thread, it appears the school bus drivers are breaking protocol by not displaying amber lights properly before a pick up or drop off.

It's a non-issue where I live, but if something like that has become an ongoing problem where you live, I'd get other parents and the school district involved. We put so much trust into these drivers, and other drivers on the road. If they are not doing their part to make safety the highest priority, something must be done before tragedy strikes.

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