How to comfort BT couple who have big nisyonos in certain

amother

Poinsettia

Sat, Aug 12 2023, 10:56 pm

BT here. In some ways, yes, my non frum relatives def do have a way easier life, or at least one that's less complicated. I like to think the way we live ours is more fulfilling for us and more special. We are passing down traditions that will be lost to the descendants of my relatives. When things are complicated I remember a talk I had with my (not observant) grandfather a few years before he passed when I was in my early 20s. He told me (unsolicited, out of the blue) how proud he was of my siblings and I for being committed to Jewish observance. I like to think that my other ancestors are also looking down (or from wherever) and proud too.

scintilla

Sat, Aug 12 2023, 11:00 pm

Did they ask you to make it make sense or do they want emotional comfort?

If they really want intellectual support I would look into how we don't do mitzvos for the reward rather for our relationship and connection with Hashem. There is a lot in chassidus about this. And how there is no guarantee and we do it lishmah.

Also the idea here https://he.m.wikisource.org/wi.....D7%92 which is also in the Shwekey song Lo Yaavod (not sure about spelling). Basically that we should serve Hashem not as one who works for a reward.

PinkFridge

Sun, Aug 13 2023, 9:16 am

If they want some sort of perspective, Making Sense of Suffering by Rav Yitzchok Kirzner is an excellent source. I think Rabbi Menachem Nissel has some encouraging shiurim too.

You can say, look, I've grappled with this. I'm not going to go through bullet points of answers but there are some sources you might get something out of. [The ones I mentioned above.] But it's not like, wow, everything's good now. It's a lifelong battle for many people. And you are going through a LOT.

There is one thing I will tell you: We say, vehaseir Soton milfaneinu u'meiachareinu. Hashem, remove the Soton before and after us. We understand the Soton we come face-to-face with, but what's the Soton behind us? Here's an example: Sora Imeinu dying on the heels of the Akeidah. Avrohom could have said, I did it! I made the wrong decision and killed her! And that would have diminished the zechus of the Akeidah. Instead he understood that this was her time and Hashem orchestrated things to happen this way.

You're not on totally uncharted territory. Avrohom went through this too. We are faced with serious pain, and this pain is a kapara, but we don't have to let it negate the good and pure decisions we made that made us beloved in Hashem's eyes, and respected in the eyes of those, like us, who are privileged to know you.

I'm here for you and davening for menucha, because it would be facile and patronizing to say anymore.

Edited to correct misspellings.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Mon, Aug 14 2023, 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Chambray

Sun, Aug 13 2023, 11:46 am

BTs are like new immigrants coming to anew country. They are on their own, learning how to cope with a new way of life, adjusting to a new culture, with no familial support (and often the opposite). They may have lost their financial footing when their prior source of income is no longer appropriate as a frum jew.
It is a choice for life. The beginings are rough, but if they hang on, they will be able to look back with pride at what they will accomplish.
What they need now is to hear that what they are going through is normal, sympathize with them yes, at the present their nonfrum relatives have it much easier. They should hear that anyone who makes such radical choices has to rough it out for a while. Kol hahatchalos kashos. You could try to put them in touch with other bts, their age and older who could lend them practical advice and emotional support.

amother

Mon, Aug 14 2023, 2:12 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

they have been BT for over 40 years, they're not new to this.

amother

Viola

Mon, Aug 14 2023, 3:05 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

While this is true of many new BTs who became frum as adults and now are trying to raise kids and say intergrate into Lakewood ….
This totally doesn’t apply to someone who has been frum sooo many years (40!!!) that’s a lifetime !!!, and who probably became frum as teenager, and has FFB kids
So whatever Advice / Chizzuk / inspirational whatever you would tell any FFB person, you tell this couple exactly the same
And really some problems , have no real explanation
Life is just hard sometimes
That’s all
And I am speaking from experience, became frum 20+ years ago as teenager.
And while some challenges are unique to us , like say lack of the type of family support that’s needed …. All other aspects of frum life are same Ex: paying tuition, raising kids etc
Our kids are regular FFB kids , but yeah we don’t live in Lakewood … more like OOT kinda place .
Also secular family being happier , that’s also part of life .
It’s just is what it is
I happen to have a sibling who is mega wealthy, and travels all over the world , and looks like she has the most glamorous life
While we struggle to raise a large family
Am I jealous ?
Yeah maybe a drop if you catch me on a bad day
But in reality I would never want that life
This person’s life / family life has absolutely no meaning, and is full of aveiros on top of that
I actually pity them very much . In this world they look like they have it all, but deep down they are really miserable not to mention nothing to show for in the Next World

amother

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:50 pm

amother Viola wrote:

They became BT when they were adults. Their family members who are not frum do good things too, they're normal people.