What to do if you're not so happy with a playgroup...

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Toddlers

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amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 2:51 pm

...but you don't have any real good reason to pull your kid out?

I'm the OP of this thread: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....27114

In short, the morah doesn't believe in changing wet diapers, only dirty ones, and acted like it was very inconvenient when I asked for her to change my child's diaper once a day (they're there for around 5 hours).

I was going to wait and just keep my eyes open. So I realized recently that even though the weather has been nice, the kids haven't been going outside. They went for a short time one day. My child LOVES going outside, and has kvetched that they never get to go outside "at morah's." So this morning I mentioned something at drop-off about how "[Child's name] was wondering if they were going to go outside today? She loves playing outside!" The morah answered, "Well, probably not. The kids don't really like going outside. They complain when we spend time outside, because the toys we have inside are so much more fun!"

Now, just as background, they have a lot of toys. And she rotates them. And she does themed toys boxes for parsha, etc. so there are always new toys and things to play with. So maybe she has a point. But how does she know that this group of kids doesn't like to play outside if she only took them once? She has playgroup equipment in the backyard, and I was under the impression that she uses them. The weather is beautiful out there...

Also, I've sent kids to playgroup for over a decade, and this is the only one I've sent to that you have to wait for the morah to open the door and send the kids out at "dismissal" time, rather than just walking in when you get there to pick up your kid. No one told me this, but this is the culture of this playgroup. All the other parents seemed to know this, or figure it out quickly. I guess I could try to knock a few minutes early and see what happens, but it's obvious that that's not the expectation.

So my question is...Are these things, taken together, red flags? I can't imagine pulling out of a playgroup because of these things. They just seem off, somehow. But my child is happy to go, which is a big deal, I know. And I don't have any major concerns. How could I look into this further? I would drop in randomly during the day, but they are often downstairs, and I"d have to knock anyway. How would that show me anything?

amother

Vanilla

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:06 pm

I’d say they’re pink flags. You’re not wrong to be dissatisfied or disappointed or both. I would be. I would not keep her there.

tichellady

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:11 pm

I don’t come from this playgroup culture but I would want my kid to play outside. It’s important for their development

amother

Mintgreen

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:14 pm

tichellady wrote:

I don’t come from this playgroup culture but I would want my kid to play outside. It’s important for their development

They can play outside when they come home. I've sent to several playgroups, they did not have outside play. It's harder to supervise so many kids outside. I'd be nervous if my playgroup aged child played outside when in playgroup.

amother

Moonstone

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:25 pm

Do you have alternatives? Are they better?

It sounds like this playgroup is not great. If you have a significantly better option I'd switch.

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:38 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Do you have alternatives? Are they better?

It sounds like this playgroup is not great. If you have a significantly better option I'd switch.

I don't. I guess I could start looking...but places are full now.

And also, if I pull her out without a really good reason, wouldn't I still have to pay for the rest of the year?

And also, she has already started making friends and is happy. She's not the most social kid. It will be very hard for her to plop in as the newcomer right after yom tov. And how do I know that another place will be any better? The places I've sent my older kids don't exist anymore, which is why I sent to this place. I wasn't incredibly happy, but at the time the other places that I looked into were worse. I guess I could try again...

I'm just not sure how much effort to put into this, or to just make peace with the fact that there are some strange things about this group.

amother

Vanilla

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:42 pm

tichellady wrote:

I don’t come from this playgroup culture but I would want my kid to play outside. It’s important for their development

I also don’t come from playgroup world; I never heard of it till imamother. But I am a daycare mom. It may be different but I wouldn’t keep my. Baby in a daycare with these practices.

amother

DarkYellow

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:42 pm

I run a playgroup and these are minor issues. I do change at lunchtime before nap and after (for those that take bottles) but some kids don't even need it, unless dirty. .

About going outside, some kids run away, some need a drink, some are barely toilet trained. They're also more prone to getting boo boos, and it becomes a huge hassle.

I wouldn't mind if a mother decides to send somewhere else as there is a high demand for playgroup. I can easily fill your slot anytime so if you have that option..I'd rather take people that are happy that the child is happy and taken care of. If you feel that your child is not, by all means..

amother

Moonstone

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

IOW you don't have any better alternatives right now.

It's not awful. It's not great. Keep your eyes open for a better opportunity, but unless one comes up, I wouldn't say it's terrible enough that you MUST switch.

amother

PlumPink

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 3:46 pm

I am a big believer in trusting your gut!! A playgroup should have an open door policy, I do not want to wait outside as a rule. My sil worked at a fantastic playgroup and she was never allowed to open the doors before a certain time, she said she would never send to such a place because of what happens behind closed doors.
Not playing outside is very understandable if she doesn’t have help. It can be overwhelming for her.

As for the not changing diapers, that would be a deal breaker for me. This indicates there’s more subtle neglect. Changing a diaper is a basic.

I would start looking.

amother

DarkYellow

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 4:14 pm

amother PlumPink wrote:

Op said she has to knock at dismissal time. I can understand that if you have one kid being picked up earlier, all the kids think they are going home and start shlepping their backpacks and running to do the door. I have 1/2 hr between parents that are late to ones who get picked up, and it makes the kids get very cranky.

But perhaps she can come by earlier one day to pick up and see what happens. She can also listen in by the door.

I've had parents insisting on things like:
Giving more protein for lunch ( the kids don't eat it, allergies, expensive)
Changing diapers less (to save)
Napping a specific time only..
Giving healthier snack than animal cookies (that's what they like)
If kid has a headache or mosquito bite, fever or virus, it must have happened in playgroup..
Etc etc.
It's hard to please everyone always.
Good luck in finding another place!

amother

Indigo

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 4:25 pm

I do a playgroup in my living room which has a sliding door to the outside with no steps.
The backyard is gated off and I look at it as an extension of my living room.

This year for some reason most of the kids do not want to play outside, I have to shlep them out and then they stay at the door.
I usually find one or two kids like this every year this time its only one kid that likes playing in the yard.

Highstrung

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 4:34 pm

I’ve had a playgroup not keep the door open because someone reported a playgroup to the authorities. She had a fear that with the door open there will be a lot of kid voices and an obvious playgroup. She also split playtime outside between girls and boys for the same reason. She didn’t want to attract attention. She was an awesome and amazing playgroup.

dena613

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 4:40 pm

[quote="[url=https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7146656#7146656]amother PlumPink][b] A playgroup should have an open door policy, I do not want to wait outside as a rule. My sil worked at a fantastic playgroup and she was never allowed to open the doors before a certain time, she said she would never send to such a place because of what happens behind closed doors. .[/quote]

This is what bothers me OP

octopus

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:00 pm

Not changing a diaper that is sagging and basically falling off is definitely good reason to pull out (based on your linked thread). Does the morah wear the same pad until it's ready to explode when she has her period? Like I don't understand, is the morah slow?

amother

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:27 pm

octopus wrote:

But if she agrees to do it, for my child only, after I ask her to...then is it really a legitimate reason to pull out without paying for the rest of the year?

I guess it'll really be a question for our rav, if halachically we can pull out of an agreement like that. Assuming I can find another place that I'm convinced is better...

octopus

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:32 pm

Well it's also deceptive that she has beautiful outside toys, and they aren't going outside to play. I do think you are legitimately unhappy on a few fronts. This morah doesn't like to extend herself too much. Her answer regarding outdoor play is weird. She didn't say this particular group, majority doesn't like to play outside. She had to say her toys inside are so much fun. Like she has to convince you that what she is doing is right. No it's not healthy to never go outside during the nicest hours of the day (which is when kids are in playgroup). No outdoor play, not enough transparency, the fact that you feel you had to ask specifically to have your child's diaper changed- altogether these are a legitimate reason to decide to pull out. I would not feel guilty. My kid comes first.

amother

Offwhite

Tue, Sep 19 2023, 5:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

You don’t need to pay for the rest of the year. Any reason of you being uncomfortable is valid. She can fill the empty slot, im sure

amother

Banana

Wed, Sep 20 2023, 10:09 am

Quote:

You don’t need to pay for the rest of the year. Any reason of you being uncomfortable is valid. She can fill the empty slot, im sure

Some places require you pay the whole year unless they fill the slot. I actually had to sign a document in order to register on of my kids.

amother

Lightblue

Wed, Sep 20 2023, 10:23 am

I had a very very similar sobering experience, down to my dc coming home in very full diaper and needing to wait at the door for drop off and pick up
I really really regret not pulling out! It's been a few years, and it's one of my biggest regrets.
Please pull her out, beH you'll find something better!

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