Double Take- Sukkos Story

amother

DarkRed

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 10:09 am

I thought the mother was unreasonable in constantly siding with the anxious sibling. I will say in real life I think this happens a lot, where the family centers around the needy family member, and the parent tends to expend others to make a lot of sacrifices. She should have hired extra babysitting or other help, or sometimes risked getting Temima upset and stood up for her son and daughter-in-law. You can’t all be held hostage to one person. But mental illness can be complicated, and it does end up affecting the whole family in many ways.

amother

Stoneblue

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 10:58 am

I agree with everyone, and as I read the story I could see how wrong the mother was.
BUT, I have been that mother. In the moment t is so so hard to navigate. You feel your anxious child’s pain, and it seems like such an easy thing for your “normal” children to just give in for now, and you just want everyone to stop fighting, and you are desperate for your yuntiff to be calm. It’s a lot of emotions, and if you are newly navigating therapy and medication and whatever else, then it’s even harder. Just to give you a taste of the other side.
Again, from outside looking in I agree, the Mom should have stood up for her DIL a few times.

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 11:54 am

This has been my yt, except replace anxious SIL with anxious grandmother (kids great grandmother). My mother made sure to set up a kids space in the basement and the anxious one just doesn't go there. She set up a cozy reading nook for me downstairs so I'm "supervising" but really the kids are playing by themselves so I can relax. She has some safe toys In a set aside corner of the living room for when they need to be supervised upstairs. But most of all, she runs interference- assuring that the kids are fine and being safe.

amother

Canary

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 12:12 pm

amother White wrote:

Temima is not a functional human.

Agreed! I was shocked that the story described her anxiety as “mild.” Anxiety that interferes with your functioning of daily life and cause such high levels of stress is not mild! Honestly, it sounded like OCD to me.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 1:45 pm

The mothers response is just making it worse for her daughter, now she sees she is validated that there is a danger . The mother should be telling her daughter it is normal and safe even if the daughter is getting anxious. The way the mother is handling things her daughter will never get better.

amother

Snow

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 2:29 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

This!
Mental illness affects everyone involved. As the sibling of someone who struggles with a lot more than anxiety I thought this was, unfortunately, very realistic. From the parents perspective they don't want to miss out on spending time with their married son and grandchildren. It's also difficult to really convey the severity of someone's mental illness to someone living a long distance away from the ill sibling.
Mental illness pulls the entire family into its web of dysfunction and it can be hard for the parents to understand that they're enabling the dysfunctional behavior when they're living with it. I do think that the brother could have had a frank and honest discussion with his parents about how dysfunctional the situation was becoming; sometimes it takes an outsider to point out of seemingly obvious. I don't think that threatening not to come back was the way to go.

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 2:39 pm

The mother, The son (brother) and DIL/SIL, all should have stood up to Temima for activities that were clearly safe (playing in playroom). If its too much for Temima, she should get away from the situation, not have everyone else walk around on eggshells. If they were used to it in the past, then it would not have been such an ordeal this time.
It is the parents responsibility to make sure that their kids are safe (removing all little pieces from floor if 2 year old would put in mouth) and going away for yom tov is not an excuse to just ignore your kids. I dont know why they would be any more exhausted/upset looking after their own kids if they were away or if they were at home.

amother

DarkCyan

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 3:33 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

.
It is the parents responsibility to make sure that their kids are safe (removing all little pieces from floor if 2 year old would put in mouth) and going away for yom tov is not an excuse to just ignore your kids. I dont know why they would be any more exhausted/upset looking after their own kids if they were away or if they were at home.

Just on this point, it is sooo much harder looking after your kids in someone else's house. My house is childproof and I lock up stuff. My kitchen gets locked and I know my kids are safe. My inlaws are many years past little children and their house reflects that. They have all these 'tchatchkas' around, small glass ornaments and other delicate items that my kids just love to touch and I have to be constantly on guard that my kids won't break them. Their kitchen is open plan to the downstairs and I'm constantly on guard, especially with the hot urn and hotplate. They keep their sprays and other cleaning stuff in a bottom cupboard that my kids can easily reach. They also don't have many toys, and what they do have isn't that suitable for my little kids, so I'm having to deal with them bored.
So yes, it is a lot more exhausting at my inlaws.

imasinger

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 3:53 pm

A few thoughts:

- Is Temima in the right profession? Her core strengths do not seem to be the calmness and flexibility that are needed for a nursing career.

- The mother says about the visiting parents that she "thought they understood" the situation. That's an assumption, and assumptions are particularly dangerous in stressful family situations, especially when there are mental health issues. Frank planning discussions before the visit would have done a lot. That means the mother explaining to the visitors what's going on, and what the thought is for dealing with it.

- It also means that the mom talks to Temima and sets some guidelines. Something like, "you may not intervene directly in their parenting -- if you're feeling anxious about your nieces and nephews, you come to me in private, and I'll help you decide whether it makes sense to bring it up to them, or for you to take a break."

- There is no conversation in the story about planning time together in a way that makes things better. Maybe after lighting, Temima can do something special with the older kids, thus building positive interactions while they have the best chance of success, while avoiding the stress of overfocusing on the idea that the younger ones would be in danger.

- To address some of these points, mom would benefit from some therapy for herself. This, perhaps, would put her in a better position to see whether Temima has found a good enough match to help her, as well.

amother

NeonYellow

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 4:16 pm

The part that bothered me the most was the mother totally invalidating the couple’s feelings. The attitude of “can’t you just try a little harder, can’t you see how hard it is for her”. What about how hard it is for them? But she basically just decided one child’s needs are more important than the other.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Oct 02 2023, 10:28 pm

I totally side with the couple as long as they were supervising according to each child's needs. By age and maturity. So a 2 year old shouldn't be around little lego but an average 8 year old definitely can. 8 year olds can play by themselves in a playroom or basement. And most kids over toddler age don't need to be supervised while eating for safety reasons.

This is not mild anxiety. I am a therapist. This is being portrayed as OCD or severe anxiety with the intrusive thoughts, inability to redirect thoughts, and the way it impedes basic functioning. She can't handle a few suitcases in a hall where no one is playing as they are all in the kitchen eating?
Kids aren't fragile pieces of glass. Treat them like they are and then they break. But there is no need to overworry and bubble wrap the kids. Read Blessing of a skinned knee.

Mom is just feeding into the anxiety. She needs specific guidance from a trained OCD and anxiety therapist. The daughter should not see just any old therapist. And that therapist should be doing family guidance /training as she is living at home with them. Mom is just making it worse by forcing everyone to tiptoe.

amother

Jade

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 8:04 pm

What I loved about the story was how it resonated on so many different levels. I mean, to me, it seems pretty clear that the mother in the story is wrong. Especially that little postscript they have was she basically says can't you just all get along.

But it's really just an extreme version of the dynamics that happen in so many families over Yom Tov. The children have real needs, physical and emotional. The family is not really set up for that. At the same time, the parents are really yearning to have their whole family under one roof. And so the kids try and make it work. And some people end up accommodating more and others end up giving in more. And some of the married children stretch their emotional limits to try it to make it work and give their parents nachas. And at some point, often one of the children will pull out. This story was an extreme example, but I related to it very much because I see the dynamic at play all the time.

amother

Jade

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 8:10 pm

amother Purple wrote:

Interesting take
As all the families grow it makes sense that dynamics change
And choices change
Life is fluid and what works better at some times can make less sense at others

And I guess what I related to most was a married child saying this isn't working right now, we will stay home. And the parent not getting it. I've seen this again and again.

amother

Jade

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 8:58 pm

amother Purple wrote:

Why wouldn’t the parents get it? Even the logistics cannot accommodate indefinitely kah
It is a natural cycle of life B”H

Great question. I didn't understand an answer from the story. Maybe one of the mothers of married on here can chime in.

Most parents understand when no room is no room. And they can't simply host everyone. But when it comes to children's needs that are less clear-cut, many don't understand. Just read imamother. Whenever they talk about people going to their parents who don't want to go. And how their excuses are played down as dumb and entitled and spoiled. And they ought to be grateful and supervise their kids better and help more. Many people can choose to stay home or go to their parents based on their own needs and desires. But most of the people I know feel strong pressure to go to their parents even when it's not working for them and their families.

amother

Purple

Wed, Oct 04 2023, 9:02 pm

Not even just physical logistics of the home but also the logistics for the young parents of packing up multiple kids etc
What makes sense for some at certain stages doesn’t usually remain static
Hopefully only for good reasons

Can’t relate to the pressure thing B”H