How not get angry and resentful

amother

Hydrangea

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:08 pm

giftedmom wrote:

I get what you’re trying to do. Discounting my logic by attributing it to emotion, trauma, etc.
spare me the empathy. I’m okay, I healed quite a bit, and my kids are better off for it.

Based on your posts, it does seem like a trauma response rather than a logical response.

By definition, abuse can only come from the stronger/ older person in a situation.

amother

Stone

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:10 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Have you ever been pinched really hard or had an object slammed into your head with force? A toddler doesn’t need to be giant to do that.

Um, pinched by a toddler? Seriously? Just open their grasp and redirect. Are you toddlers that strong? Hit with an object? Just take away the object.

Do you hit your toddlers with objects? Pinch them?

amother

Navy

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:10 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Have you ever been pinched really hard or had an object slammed into your head with force? A toddler doesn’t need to be giant to do that.

Of course I have but 2 year olds are not deliberate. I guarantee they dont know this is wooden so if I hit with this then it will hurt my mother very bad

giftedmom

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:10 pm

amother Hydrangea wrote:

Based on your posts, it does seem like a trauma response rather than a logical response.

By definition, abuse can only come from the stronger/ older person in a situation.

I disagree with that. Abuse can come from anyone if the other party allows it.
Off topic but this is the logic that has the world vilifying Israel because they’re stronger.

giftedmom

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:11 pm

amother Stone wrote:

Sure and then they’ll just do it again. And again.

giftedmom

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:12 pm

amother Navy wrote:

Of course I have but 2 year olds are not deliberate. I guarantee they dont know this is wooden so if I hit with this then it will hurt my mother very bad

I disagree with that. I’ve seen 2 year olds hurt deliberately. Fact is, once they’re hurt back they stop. Ergo, they knew exactly what they were doing.

amother

Puce

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:13 pm

I'm with giftedmom on this one. I never tolerated my kids hitting or kicking me etc. That was my one big red line. When they were very small, they got a little potch on the hand back. When they were a bit older, they got a more age appropriate potch. At age 4 or so they all had gotten the message and stopped hitting dh or me. Now they wail and kvetch and maybe kick the furniture, if they are very frustrated, but they don't attack us. Therefore we also haven't had a reason in a few years to hit any of them. They don't hit us and we don't hit them. We sort it out verbally.

I was raised like that as well. I have a very early childhood memory of hitting my mom with a long stick. She got back at me like lightening. I never tried that or anything similar again. We get along well, by the way, decades later.

amother

Navy

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:13 pm

I was never hit as a child but my mother was very tough on us. We subconsciously learned not to open up to her about our feelings or we'd feel shut down. I dont feel close with her today.
With my children I do gentle parenting and they are BH bli ayan hora very well behaved kids who feel very close with me

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:15 pm

giftedmom wrote:

I disagree with that. I’ve seen 2 year olds hurt deliberately. Fact is, once they’re hurt back they stop. Ergo, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Once they’re hurt that way they’ll stop anything they were doing. It’s cause and effect. If they ate oranges and got hit they’ll stop eating oranges. What does that prove?
No one says it’s an involuntary action on their part.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:16 pm

amother Puce wrote:

A little potch on the hand stopped your two year old from hitting?

giftedmom

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:17 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

Great, so they stop hurting me.
Pretty sure that’s what people here are saying, that it’s involuntary.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:23 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Great, so they stop hurting me.
Pretty sure that’s what people here are saying, that it’s involuntary.

No. Hitting out of a need doesn’t mean it’s involuntary. It means that they’re not trying to hurt you. Involuntary means they can’t control it. I think most of can find ways of controlling a lot of our toddlers unwanted behaviors. And we think that those ways can be harmful to the kids.
I guess if your end goal in parenting is that they don’t hit their mom you’re good.
I find that those who continue hitting when they’re older it’s not just because their parents didn’t hit them back. If they got hit back and stopped that one behavior they’ll still demonstrate other aggressive behaviors which hadn’t been addressed.
So one very particular issue “don’t hit your mother” was addressed with this method.
But the kid is left struggling.

amother

Puce

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:23 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

A little potch on the hand stopped your two year old from hitting?

Not immediately, but as I wrote, I upped the dosage with time and eventually they got the message. It was a process. I also restrained them by holding their arms or legs down with my hands if needed and if the potch wasn't enough.

amother

Freesia

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:25 pm

First of all, you should know that this is normal 2 year old behavior. Just like having a tantrum, screaming, being a picky eater, throwing toys, resisting going to bed, not wanting to get dressed, etc. So it isn't just your 2 year old, it is many 2 year olds who do this. That helps me reframe a little.

Your 2 year old does not know how to get what he wants. So he will try different tactics (in no particular order) - pointing, screaming, crying, hitting, scratching, biting, asking, begging, yanking on your clothes, climbing on things, the list goes on. But when a 2 year old wants something, he is usually also feeling uncomfortable physically and/or emotionally and he wants you to make the uncomfortable stop by giving him your attention because that fills a need. And it does not matter whether that attention is positive or negative. Any emotions and words you convey to him give him stimulation and that fills up whatever hole he is feeling, even if it fills him with something negative. So when you get mad, that also gives him attention which helps his uncomfortable feelings because Mommy is there instead of no attention at all. That may help you reframe too - he isn't hitting you to hurt or be mean or because he is ungrateful. He is hitting because the result is that give him attention, and even negative attention is better than no attention.

Also, view it liek a baby -- I was on the floor with my 8 month the other day and she was mad that I wasn't picking her up and she starting frantically waving her arms and legs and so she ended up kicking me in the head. Obviously she was just frustrated and wasn't trying to hurt me, she is just a little baby, so I just moved away. And while 2 year olds have more intent behind their behavior, they are also like little babies when they get upset, they revert back to primitive behavior because they have lost control over themselves to some degree and hitting is easier than explaining. Maybe that can help you reframe as well.

However, I do believe some 2 year olds hit on purpose or to manipulate or to get their way or to control or to hurt. But so what, they are 2 and don't really know how to interact with people correctly yet, and it is my job to teach those skills, that helps me reframe as well, to see myself as more of an objective teacher than a victim.

For me, hitting is also a red line. But not so I won't get hurt, it is because I believe my children should never hurt anyone - it is a red line for them to learn that hurting others is not ok. And there are consequences, but I never physically hurt them back - no hitting, no holding down their hands if they resist or it gets them more upset (one dd claimed it hurt when I held her hands it, even if I was extremely gentle), nothing of the sort. And not empathy or niceness, because then they learn that hitting gets them positive attention. I tell them sternly no hitting and either move them away or myself away and then they get a consequence - a time out (that one is hard to implement for some kids, so you'll have to decide whether it is appropriate for your specific child), or a privilege is taken away. Sometimes I give the consequence only once they have calmed down a little because they are too hysterical at the time. But no eye contact at all and the no hitting is said in a complete monotone. They get zero attention. I might have to do this 5 or 10 or 20 or 50 times in the moment, but at some point they give up (and giving up might mean continuing to have a tantrum, but at least not hurting me anymore). And I make them say sorry to me once they are calm enough to do so before giving them any attention, that is very important as well - when we hurt someone, intentionally or not, we say sorry. I would apologize to my kid or anyone if I stepped on their foot by accident, so if they hit me during a tantrum they also need to say sorry even if they didn't mean it.

Also, I try to prevent them getting so upset that they are hitting. Once I see they are getting upset, before the tantrum starts and before they act out with it, I do Miriam Adahan's 'hold my hands, look into my eyes, and tell me exactly what you want'. For one dd, I skipped the hand holding part because she didn't like it (same dd as above), I just crouch down to look her in the eye. This heads off some episodes of tantrums or hitting, but not all, but very worth it, and the more you do it, the more they cooperate with it and the less they act out.

Sounds like you are a really giving mom, but your 2 year old doesn't know that yet, he takes it for granted because you are doing a good job, they are too little to be aware of the fact that we give so much. So just keep parenting at your best, and make sure your needs are met too - always put on your oxygen mask before your kids, that way you can both breathe easy.

giftedmom

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:28 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

This is the very definition of a red line in parenting. It means it will not be tolerated.

amother

Mintgreen

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:32 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Unpopular stance
Hurting me is a red line in parenting for me. I think I’ve mentioned that before. That goes for verbal AND physical. Even for a toddler.
If it keeps happening and that child is clearly doing it to get his/her way I would hurt the child back. 2-3 times and it won’t happen again.

OMG! So basically your telling your child hurting is fine, it's just that I'm stronger so don't start up with me or you'll regret it. Your child looks up to you more than anyone in the world. You really want your baby to be in pain from his mommy? I'm sure you're a great mom, but right now I want to adopt your little toddler. The idea of a mother hurting her baby makes me tear up.

amother

Mintgreen

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:37 pm

amother Stone wrote:

Lol! Do you have a 2 year old? They can cause ALOT of physical damage. But yeah, hurting back? I can't imagine a mother doing that.

amother

DarkCyan

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 12:40 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

Lol! Do you have a 2 year old? They can cause ALOT of physical damage. But yeah, hurting back? I can't imagine a mother doing that.

Yes yes yes
I’m assuming the ones who say toddlers can’t hurt that much have little Princess girls
My rambunctious boys can reallllllly hurt me.
But hitting back?? That’s insane
Thinking they did it purposefully?? Also crazy

amother

Freesia

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 1:02 pm

giftedmom wrote:

That might work but can take a while and I will not allow myself to be hurt in the meantime. Zero tolerance policy. Full stop. Sorry if that triggers some people. I will not be mistreated by anyone.

Giftedmom, what age would you start this from? I have an 8 month old who bites. She bites during nursing, but at other times she will bite my arms when I hold her or my feet if she is playing on the floor. This doesn't happen often, she usually does this only while teething, but she also seems to think my reaction is funny, so she does it intentionally on some level because it gets her attention or stimulation when she wants it. She already has some teeth, so it really hurts me when she bites. Would you hurt back a kid that young? If not then, what age would you decide to hurt the kid back?

amother

Anemone

Thu, Nov 23 2023, 1:33 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

And no it's not about whoever is stronger gets to hit. She doesn't hit her toddler. But if the toddler starts with that behaviour then she stops it.....

I don't agree with giftenmom but I get where she's coming from.
A child shouldn't feel her mommy will hurt her.
A 2 year old can be held and spoken to sterly.

One of my kids wasa biter. She spoke late and it only made things worse. She bit on the playground. She bit her sister she bit me too. I tried many things.
One dumb person told me to bite her back. I was annoyed. But after another few months of biting I decided to try it.
Omg the look of hurt on her face. Poor baby 😢 😭 😔 she was so so so so so shocked that I actually did that. And no it didn't help at all. She eventually outgrew it.

On the nursing end, I was but so badly by one of my babies and I was at my parents house. I gave a little yelp and I just started crying. It hurt so so so so bad.
My father told me to do this and it worked like magic.
After that, I did this with all of my babies who bit. (Ironically. My kid who was a biter I stopped nursing cuz I couldn't get her to stop bitting. And I was always in different stages if bleeding.... )
It need 3 max 4 tries and they all got the message.
If my baby would bite during nursing I'd instantly pinch their legs where they couldn't see. Even if they didnt have teeth. Biting was a nono. The first time they where all surprised. Then they'd Bite again, by the 3rd time they usually already figured it out that somehow, then they bite while nursing their leg hurts. So they stop biting becuase it hurts. They don't know it's me doing it.
It's sneaky. And I hated doing it. But after trying all kids of techniques it was the only one that actually worked.
One of my babies did it at 6 weeks. She figured it out on one feeding session.
You can only do it with small babies. As when they get older they won't associate the pain in their legs with what they are doing with their mouth anymore. They will be too old for it.

Anon, cuz I've spone to ppl about it.