"Why is teffila not in our own words"

TranquilityAndPeace

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 5:02 am

Great question.

Both have value.

Tefilla from a siddur, using Chazal’s words can be compared to someone who cooks using a recipe.

Tefilla from one’s heart in their own words, can be compared to someone who doesn’t use recipes or measuring cups, whose oven doesn’t have a temperature gauge. It requires a higher level of skill to yield good challah!

Both are extremely valuable, both have their place.

Chazal imbued their words of the siddur with many secrets and powers, so if we say those words, even without understanding them, they are effective - like a tried a true recipe that does not require the baker to understand how yeast works or how heat affects ingredients, etc.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 5:21 am

I don't know if your daughter is old enough to have a conversation based on the Chovos Halevavos, but it's a very important perspective to have in mind.

The main thing is the "Lev" - the internal. Our connection to Hashem, our love and gratitude to Hashem , our trust in Him.

The Torah and Mitzvos are placeholders that bring us towards this goal. But the main goal is connecting internally.

In Shaar Avodas Elokim the Chovos Halevavos brings the reasons why there has to be basic obligations, why there are things we must do even without "feeling the feelings"

But that is only the baseline. That is only the starting point.

To truly be an Eved Hashem - Is far far more than that.

YES she should talk to Hashem in her own words. She should praise Him, request things from Him, and thank Him. An internal, real connection to Hashem is the reason for our existence!

Now, we also have a chiyuv tefilla.
The words of the Tefilla as composed by the Anshei Kneses Hagdola are so beautiful, so all encompasing, that I truly believe everyone can grow so close to HKBH through their words
There are two problems:
1)
If she has a hard time understanding the words - she might gain from a sefer on Tefilla that explains the words and the kavanos. I can recommend some wonderful ones

2) There is a problem that we repeat the tefillos daily and fall into the trap of saying things by rote. This is hard and something we must work on.

singleagain

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:23 am

My highschool really didn't like that I wouldn't daven from the siddur {they even ruined one of my seminary choices bc of that}

But the rebetizen of my community defended me, telling them I did avoda sh'blev. Work of the heart. By davening in my own words.

And I have always resented scripted tefillah bc of the way I felt forced and manhandled in my youth.

When you discuss this please just make sure you don't push in the wrong way that she ends up with a negative association at all.

amf

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:28 am

Tefilla/words from chazal are like bullets that pierce through the 'ice' blocking us from hashem. Tefilla with our own words is like a fire that melts the ice. The "bullets" have a lot of power, and work 'quickly' but are so much more effective when combined with heat. Heat on its own will work as well but will require a lot more effort

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:28 am

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

very beautiful!

saying words without understanding them

wouldnt that be like sayig it without kavanah?

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:37 am

It's important to be able to participate in tefillah betzibbur. While davening betzibbur is optional for women, it is a positive thing to do when feasible. Even if a woman doesn't do it regularly, it is good to have the option and know how.

There is also something very meaningful to knowing that one is saying words put together by chazal, which are the subject of much halacha and discussion, and which hundreds of thousands of other Jews probably said that same day.

Finally, there is the matter of schar for a mitzvah. Saying shema and shmone esrei on time has some distinct value, even though the level of chiyuv is not the same for a woman as for a man.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:42 am

amother Wallflower wrote:

We need both.
I remember learning bcharbi ubkashti- one is prescribed and one is our own words but don’t remember details now 20 years later 😃

I remember learning this also!
the lesson was that when we use the words of Chazal, we already have a sharpened weapon at our disposal. maybe this was the sword?
We can and should also daven in our own words but they need more direction and Kavanna. maybe this was the arrow?

octopus

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:46 am

Excellent question!!! This was the plan A. People were always supposed to daven from their heart and with their own words. The masses knew that tefilla had three components praise (hoda'ah) , a request, (bakasha) , and thanks (todah). Every tefilla would contain these 3 components.When bnei yisrael were placed in galus, chazal saw that we were weakened and many things were written down, they wrote down the text for tefilla. The shemona esrei, which contains all of these three elements is considered the epitome of tefilla. If you daven nothing else but just shmona esrei (at least for a woman) you are mekayem the mitzvah of tefilla. But the written tefilla is plan B. It was always supposed to be plan A. You are always allowed to daven to Hashem in your own words as long as you use the the 3 piece format.

amother

Jasmine

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:20 am

life is fun wrote:

Dd asked me on shabbos, if Hashem wants us to daven and have a connection with Him, why the need for tefilla from a siddur, why can't we just talk to Him??

Actually Mitzvas Tefilla has 2 parts - Davening at the alloyed times (Shacharis, Mincha...) And Davening when we need something.
When we need something there's a CHIYUV to tell Hashem in our words about it and ask Him for it!!

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:40 am

I think I read from r shimshon pinncus or r mattiyahu solomon that womwn are not mechuav with tefilah cos they are constantly davening to hashem in their heart and with words - child not well - help he should getter better, hel me get an app by the doctor, he should be the right shaliach....

but then it contradicts that chazal words are more powerful....

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:46 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

I heard about this chiyuv but when I think about it I get upset.

many times I am so burnt out and not in the mood and not in the right frame of mind and havent got the words clear and I feel that I am being oiver by not telling hashem - I keep thinking I need to daven but I cant - is it like telling hashem?

also - what is the chiyuv? that you wont get helped if you dont ask?
maybe I have it wrong - I used to think that probably many of the things I want and need I dont get is cos there is a chiyuv and if you dont fulfil it you wont get it?

but I am rethinking - is the chiyuv regardless of the yeshuah? hashem can still help and does help people even if they were mechuav to daven just like he helps a person even if he didnt do mitzvos like he should?

amother

Junglegreen

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:50 am

She should also daven to Hashem in her own words but on a general level no one speaks to anyone of great importance about issues of great importance without consulting those who are wiser than themselves about what to say and how to say it