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Forum
-> Vacation and Traveling
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amother
Aconite
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 Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:41 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Ok, for context I'll explain. We were scheduled to go to a certain resort near chabad. We arranged shabbos food from said chabad. Our plans changed 2 weeks before the shabbos we were supposed to be there and we would be staying in another area over shabbos not near chabad. We contacted the chabad rabbi and explained that we won't be in the area and would like a refund. At first he said if he can replace our spots, he'll issue a refund.
A few days later I noticed that on the chabad website it says they are fully booked and closed out for shabbos meals. We called the rabbi and tried to explain that if the website says they're sold out then they won't be able to replace us. He says if he opens booking on the website he'll get 80 reservations and he doesn't want to deal with it. He then explained that when people see on their website that it's closed out, some call him privately and that he'll replace us that way.
A few days later we called him for an update and he said that he did indeed replace our spots but will only issue a food credit that we can use for delivery when we're in the general area. We went back and forth via email and he said food credit only. We made restaurant reservations already and don't want very over priced food delivered to eat at our hotel.
I started a dispute with paypal a few days ago and I guess they just contacted him. He has the chutzpah to email me saying he was considering a refund but since we complained to paypal he will let them decide. I forwarded him his emails saying NO REFUND.
I don't think this is fair or menchlach. |
Check online if they have a cancelation policy & what it is.
I think you should've let them know that you'd start a dispute through paypal. They may have just given you the refund.
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amother
Cadetblue
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:43 pm
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Op after our trip we asked around, seems people know about it. If we're talking about the same person.
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amother
Cadetblue
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:47 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Ok, for context I'll explain. We were scheduled to go to a certain resort near chabad. We arranged shabbos food from said chabad. Our plans changed 2 weeks before the shabbos we were supposed to be there and we would be staying in another area over shabbos not near chabad. We contacted the chabad rabbi and explained that we won't be in the area and would like a refund. At first he said if he can replace our spots, he'll issue a refund.
A few days later I noticed that on the chabad website it says they are fully booked and closed out for shabbos meals. We called the rabbi and tried to explain that if the website says they're sold out then they won't be able to replace us. He says if he opens booking on the website he'll get 80 reservations and he doesn't want to deal with it. He then explained that when people see on their website that it's closed out, some call him privately and that he'll replace us that way.
A few days later we called him for an update and he said that he did indeed replace our spots but will only issue a food credit that we can use for delivery when we're in the general area. We went back and forth via email and he said food credit only. We made restaurant reservations already and don't want very over priced food delivered to eat at our hotel.
I started a dispute with paypal a few days ago and I guess they just contacted him. He has the chutzpah to email me saying he was considering a refund but since we complained to paypal he will let them decide. I forwarded him his emails saying NO REFUND.
I don't think this is fair or menchlach.
ETA: My intention is not to bash chabad. As a group I think they are above and beyond the simple people like me. This bad experience doesn't change my opinion. There seems to be one bad apple though. |
There are bad apples everywhere. Doesn't make chabad bad though.
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amother
OP
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:47 pm
| amother Aconite wrote: | Check online if they have a cancelation policy & what it is.
I think you should've let them know that you'd start a dispute through paypal. They may have just given you the refund. |
There was no cancellation policy.
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amother
NeonGreen
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:48 pm
| amother Cadetblue wrote: | | There are bad apples everywhere. Doesn't make chabad bad though. |
She never said they are.
She asked whom she can contact about her experience.
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amother
OP
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:48 pm
| amother Cadetblue wrote: | | There are bad apples everywhere. Doesn't make chabad bad though. |
Agreed. I have the utmost respect for chabad. They do things that 99% of us wouldn't do.
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groovy1224
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:49 pm
| amother Cadetblue wrote: | | There are bad apples everywhere. Doesn't make chabad bad though. |
Who said chabad is bad??
OP seems like she had a legitimately upsetting experience, why is she not allowed to ask if there's anyone to talk to about it?
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amother
Carnation
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:50 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Ok, for context I'll explain. We were scheduled to go to a certain resort near chabad. We arranged shabbos food from said chabad. Our plans changed 2 weeks before the shabbos we were supposed to be there and we would be staying in another area over shabbos not near chabad. We contacted the chabad rabbi and explained that we won't be in the area and would like a refund. At first he said if he can replace our spots, he'll issue a refund.
A few days later I noticed that on the chabad website it says they are fully booked and closed out for shabbos meals. We called the rabbi and tried to explain that if the website says they're sold out then they won't be able to replace us. He says if he opens booking on the website he'll get 80 reservations and he doesn't want to deal with it. He then explained that when people see on their website that it's closed out, some call him privately and that he'll replace us that way.
A few days later we called him for an update and he said that he did indeed replace our spots but will only issue a food credit that we can use for delivery when we're in the general area. We went back and forth via email and he said food credit only. We made restaurant reservations already and don't want very over priced food delivered to eat at our hotel.
I started a dispute with paypal a few days ago and I guess they just contacted him. He has the chutzpah to email me saying he was considering a refund but since we complained to paypal he will let them decide. I forwarded him his emails saying NO REFUND.
I don't think this is fair or menchlach.
ETA: My intention is not to bash chabad. As a group I think they are above and beyond the simple people like me. This bad experience doesn't change my opinion. There seems to be one bad apple though. |
Sounds frustrating, but to answer your question, no there’s no central Chabad to escalate an issue like this. Each center functions independently.
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amother
Pistachio
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:55 pm
Just fyi, “just ordered some baked goods” can often mean the shlucha slaving away in her kitchen without the convenience ingredients etc. no matter how tired or busy.
Often “chabad” = a very busy overwhelmed mother/ homemaker / teacher who is squeezing you in because she’s THAT nice!
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amother
Sunflower
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:56 pm
I am really sorry you had this experience.
I run a chabad house, and I would not do that. However, I am not dealing with hundreds of sometimes rude and badly behaved tourists like some shluchim are, so I can probably afford to be nice.
We recently refunded some people who cancelled on the day of the event. (a community event, not for tourists) They kept texting my husband for the refund - it was one of those days where I hardly had time to breathe. Of course we had already made the food and besides, we were charging a really token amount. So a complete loss for us.
These are people with a second home and frequent vacations.
In your position I would have notified the Shliach I was starting a dispute. I am not sure of the repercussions of a paypal dispute for him.
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watergirl
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:56 pm
| amother Pistachio wrote: | Just fyi, “just ordered some baked goods” can often mean the shlucha slaving away in her kitchen without the convenience ingredients etc. no matter how tired or busy.
Often “chabad” = a very busy overwhelmed mother/ homemaker / teacher who is squeezing you in because she’s THAT nice! |
And because they need the money to run their programming that badly that she is willing to even do this, as it means of income!
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amother
Sunflower
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:58 pm
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There is a central Chabad office (Merkos L'inyonei Chinuch) but since this shliach does not seem to have committed a crime I doubt they would do anything.
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amother
Burlywood
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:04 pm
I am not sure you're halachickly in the right. You need to ask your Rabbi. It's a question of stealing.
It's super frustrating but that doesn't mean you have the legal right to dispute the charge.
I once felt I was scammed by a business. Went to a Din Torah in the end, and they won. Feelings don't determine the law... I was still mad but rather pay then steal.
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amother
Cadetblue
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:05 pm
| amother Pistachio wrote: | Just fyi, “just ordered some baked goods” can often mean the shlucha slaving away in her kitchen without the convenience ingredients etc. no matter how tired or busy.
Often “chabad” = a very busy overwhelmed mother/ homemaker / teacher who is squeezing you in because she’s THAT nice! |
We had an issue with him not her. And no, no one is slaving away in the kitchen. They have lots of hired help working for them. It's a business.
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amother
Cadetblue
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:09 pm
| groovy1224 wrote: | Who said chabad is bad??
OP seems like she had a legitimately upsetting experience, why is she not allowed to ask if there's anyone to talk to about it? |
Your 100% right. Just bringing to everyone's awareness that op and I have a bad experience with one of the chabad houses. Doesn't make chabad bad as a whole, put there are bad apples everywhere.
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amother
Sunflower
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:14 pm
| amother Cadetblue wrote: | | We had an issue with him not her. And no, no one is slaving away in the kitchen. They have lots of hired help working for them. It's a business. |
They may or may not be making money from the business. We also have a 'business', we don't make a penny. Kosher food businesses are tough enough to run in places like NY, but in an out of town location there are all sorts of extra expenses.
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amother
Pansy
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:16 pm
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You would deal with it the same way you deal with such a situation if it happened with any other “kosher program”.
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amother
Plum
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:19 pm
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OP. I dont know how paypal will result things for you but with credit card its usually easier making the dispute.(assuming your paypal is attached to your credit card) Even if you are not fully happy with them I would suggest just dealing with it privately and working it out on your own. complaining to the organization won't really help as at the end of the day it's not like they did something totaly inappropriate (Honestly at the begining of the thread I thought it was something really inappropriate which people with power abuse.... I'm sure everyone knows what I am reffering to)
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amother
Mauve
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:21 pm
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Not sure I understand the story. If you were planning on giving a big donation then why bother getting a refund? Why not just let the cost of the baked goods be the donation?
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amother
Holly
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Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:21 pm
This thread is completely unnecessary. You had an issue with a purchase and refund.
Your mentchlich response could have been, we aren’t able to use the baked goods And we are so appreciative that you are here for people and for tourists, please accept our purchase as a donation for your good work.
Disclosure. I have a sibling on shlichus in a semi-tourist attraction.
The food he is preparing costs him a tremendous amount in imports etc.
however, he IS relying on the income from tourists and therefore, customer service is important. This is not him bec he has a very small endeavor.
It usually is better for the Shluchim if they treat people nicely and I am not sure what happened here.
But I do know this post was not necessary.
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