Issue with a certain chabad rabbi. Who to complain to?

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 11:37 am

amother Pansy wrote:

Now that she knows that the answer is no I don’t understand why she can’t change her thread title and she thinks everyone “owes her” things wondering

If I made a thread called:
“Issue with sfardi organization”
And I asked who is someone influential in sfardi community that can help me get my refund and I was told the sfardi community doesn’t work that way… I would change my tittle and apologize for the offensive title.

Even if she thinks she’s 100% in the right (wich she does) the fact that it offends some people is a reason to change the title.

I don't see why she needs to change the thread title. That is just weird

amother

Hunter

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 11:42 am

amother Vanilla wrote:

See, but this is exactly what many people have issues with.

If I order catered food for Shabbos at a fixed price, I'm not looking at it as tzedakkah money, the same way I would never use maaser money for it. I'm paying for my vacation food same as I'm paying for the hotel room. (Disclaimer: I've never done this anyway, just explaining how many view it.).

I don't think it's fair to dictate to others where to give tzedakah too. Especially if it's something which doesn't qualify for maaser money.

I absolutely agree you can't dictate to someone where to give tzedakah, but if you give to a non-profit/charity/shul, you can't decide it is a business and not charity just because you don't want to donate to them. You can't count it as something different than what it is... they are a non-profit charitable organization--that's what they are. If you don't want to give them money, then don't interact with them at all.

amother

Vanilla

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 11:44 am

amother Hunter wrote:

I don't get this response either.

If I order food from them at catering prices, then yes I'm ordering from a business.

If I want to use their services I will interact with them. If I don't want to use their services I won't.

If for any reason I need to cancel the services, I expect them to act like a regular ethical business.

It's as simple as that.

amother

Midnight

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 11:50 am

amother Hunter wrote:

I'm Chabad (that's why posting anon)... and OP I didn't find your post racist and I understood why Chabad was in the title. I didn't think you were attacking all of Chabad. I also am not defending the shliach. I don't think he dealt with you respectfully and am sorry.

But I think the idea that this is a "catering/restaurant/takeout business" is what is confusing to me. Because it just isn't that. As many have already mentioned, Chabad Houses do all their fundraising for their Chabad House. The purpose of the Chabad House is to support yidden less knowledgeable about yiddishkeit because every jewish neshoma is special and any single mitzva could be one that "tips the scale." While Chabad Houses in touristy locations obviously support Jews who travel there, it is not really their purpose (with perhaps the exception of some in southeast Asia that are there to support young Israeli soul-searchers who might be pulled into other religions). Just because a Chabad House offers baked goods, or take-out food, or Shabbos meals does not make it a "take-out food business"... that service is just one fundraising method for the entire Chabad House, which is non-profit organization and a shul.

.

I disagree with this.

I remember getting pizza in Orlando from a kosher place I found online. It was run like a regular business and I had no idea I was ordering from a Chabad Shluach until I made small talk with the frum young worker.

If I remember correctly the6 also ran a fleishig eatery which was like a regular restaurant.

(Happened some years ago, I may be mistaken)

amother

Hunter

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 11:55 am

amother Vanilla wrote:

Again, that's because people are not thinking about what a Chabad House is, its purpose and mission.

Any person can go to some far flung place and open a catering business to make money-- a profit. They could even be a Lubavitcher... or any other affiliation.

But that's not what a Chabad House is. It is not a "catering business" ever. This is just one revenue/fundraising stream for them, amongst many ways they raise funds for their Chabad House, in order to fulfil their mission.

"I'm going to xyz to start my catering business!" said no shliach (ever).

amother

Vanilla

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:02 pm

amother Hunter wrote:

They didn't go there to open a catering business, but this aspect of it IS a business.

Would they be happy if noone ordered food from them?

Certainly not. Because they do want the revenue this brings in. The revenue might be used to fund their kiruv activities, but the service itself is still a business.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:09 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

This post says more about you, than about the op.

That I am a person who actually enjoys her vacations, knowing when to let things go, and accept that maybe Hashem wanted my money to go there?
That I am a person who lets Hashem run the world and knows that sometimes things dont go my way and may seem unfair to me, but are the right thing to happen? And say Baruch Hashem.
That I am a person who would avoid at all costs the chillul Hashem of hurting another Jews business? This part really hurts me.
Especially when they started posting hints about the location of this Chabad House.

I didnt ask OP to post all this stuff, Believe me, I wish she hadnt.

amother

Sunflower

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:13 pm

amother Hunter wrote:

Nobody is going to go to a place with hardly any Jews and open a catering business for money. You won't make any, or not very much. (obv. depending on location) Most chabad shluchim do not move to remote places to start food businesses but soon realise it is integral to what they are doing anyway. Plus, an added benefit is that they can help kosher tourists and help support their chabad house too.

We have a food place attached to our chabad house. Tourists appreciate it but most of our clientele are local Jews who are thrilled to have kosher/Jewish food. Some tourists get disappointed that our food is Jewish and not the local cuisine, but that is not why most of our customers are coming to us. Every day I get to connect with more Jews who might come to buy some chopped liver or challah but then find out we do Torah classes too. And even if I don't, its great that we are enabling people to keep shabbos with the challah, wine, shabbos candles and other food we sell.

At the same time, without tourists, it would not be such a viable business. And I do appreciate and enjoy the fact that I am making it easier for frum/Jewish people to keep kosher even while travelling. I know its easy for people to drop their standards. And as a person who likes travelling myself, (and is not a massive tuna and crackers fan) I am happy that I am making it easier for frum people to travel.

BH we have only really encountered lovely visitors. But I don't live in a super popular place, its kind of a niche tourist area.

When we opened our food business another shliach told us to get someone else (not us) to manage it. Reading this thread makes me realise how right he was.

amother

Vanilla

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:21 pm

amother Sunflower wrote:

Why? As long as you treat them courteously as a customer then you'll be fine. Not sure what you're reading into this thread other than that people want you to be mentschlich when they pay you for services.

SYA

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:31 pm

After reading this thread it seems that English isn’t this shliach’s first language. It also seems he felt that OP was canceling to go to his competitor. That still does not excuse his behavior.

Going to a competitor can be a very sore point for him. It may be someone who isn’t officially a shliach, meaning it’s a chabad couple who liked the location and went without approval of merkos or the head and local shliach. The competitor could be taking away from him financially as they have the same target reach, and reaching out to their community members. That still doesn’t excuse him. But it does show what could be going on and why he reacted how he did.

I have a friend who’s a shlucha. Someone who was friendly with Chabad (became frum from that shlucha) decided to open a Chabad house in the same area. My friend went to Bais Din and the other couple didn’t listen. They refused to close their “Chabad house”’, but they did switch their name and don’t call themselves chabad now. The shliach decided against going to court as it would be a chilul Hashem. But he now has another shul very close by competing with him. I’m sure it affects them financially. Many people in the area know that they’ve built up the community and that the other is trying to compete with them. However, visitors may not know that. Yet my friend does not mention or discuss it with visitors.

amother

Gold

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:34 pm

amother Vanilla wrote:

I see what amother sunflower is saying. If you want to be treated well when using her services then maybe the shluchim who have a million things going on and are overworked should not be busy making this their top priority, they should get someone who deals with tourists, sort of like a customer service rep.

amother

Darkblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 12:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

I don't know why I'm posting this but I think he completely misunderstood my original question about the 2 similar chabad addresses and that threw him off. Here's the very last email he sent to my husband:

It seems that he is very competitive with the other chabad. He interpreted my innocent question about the 2 similar addresses as questioning him about his competitor so I can use the other chabad. I think that's why he said it's unethical. He's mistaken because I was asking innocently. I thought because the addresses are so close, maybe one is the shul and the other is a store or who knows what, but it's one single chabad.

At any rate I can see why he'd be offended by my question. He still shouldn't have responded louzy question, but at least I realize that it wasn't that he was being asked the same question for the upteenth time as many here ridiculously used as a justification. He though I was using him to go to his competitor. It also makes sense because he was a little derogatory to the other chabad. He told me they "copied" his menu almost word for word. Yes, they both list items like gefilite fish, chicken soup, potato kugel and chulent.

Anyway, in the interest of fairness (since I have the utmost respect for chabad) I wanted to include this misunderstanding that I believe sent him off the rails. It still doesn't justify his response but it's not quite as disgusting as I originally thought considering he completely misunderstood my innocent question about the 2 addresses.

So here you have your answer: you inadvertently tapped into an argument between two chabad shlichim.

Nothing is your fault, it's just because those two don't like each other.
Problem solved.

amother

Iris

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:12 pm

amother Hunter wrote:

This is similar to Oorahs cucumber communications, which was just one revenue stream for this kiruv organization.
It was still treated as a business in terms of dealing with customers.

amother

Amaryllis

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 1:45 pm

amother Hunter wrote:

Being a nonprofit doesn’t give you license to steal.

sequoia

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 3:10 pm

Chabad rabbis and rebbetzins move to locations where they have no infrastructure, no community, and no childhood friends — locations that are often antisemitic or otherwise dangerous.

They wear many hats.

The Chabad rebbetzin you ordered baked goods from could be chef, cook, baker, school teacher, camp director, mikvah lady, kallah teacher, shul rebbetzin, mentor, impromptu therapist, wife, mother — all at once. All in a location where everything requires advanced planning, preparation, forethought.

They send their beloved children away to school at a young age.

They sacrifice a lot. For you, for me, for all of us.

Can we not lose sight of that?

amother

Sunflower

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 4:58 pm

amother Gold wrote:

This, and other reasons. If I am busy spending time working out how much meat I need to order, how much vegetables we need, dealing with customers, I don't have the energy or the time to plan summer camp, hebrew classes, women's classes, yom tov events.

I do actually deal directly with people who want to come to our shabbos meals. But if they want to order food to be delivered I just send them to our website or our manager who deals with them directly. It works much better that way!!!

amother

Sunflower

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 5:00 pm

sequoia wrote:

Many sheitals you mean. Chabad shluchos only wear sheitals, not hats or tichels. Smile

.

Also, some of us are not in nice, sunny beach resorts. (maybe I can switch for a few weeks...)