Mishpacha Double Take

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:18 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Well said, using a non-professional as a therapist is as bad as using a non-professional for any other profession.
There is a reason one needs to be educated and licensed and be accountable professionally. You cant just hang a shingle.
But people want to think they are saving money using a non-professional. Its the most expensive route in the long run.

Agreed. But at the same time, you do need someone in the school to do the interventions there- you just have to figure out how to word it and ask them yourself. Because if it's coming to the school from a therapist, unless there is a danger that the school really needs to know about, the fact that she is in therapy is none of their business.

And then everyone needs to ask their own shailah about what to do about the therapy question on the seminary applications.

amother

Crystal

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:56 am

amother Tan wrote:

And then everyone needs to ask their own shailah about what to do about the therapy question on the seminary applications.

Again, wow. Do they ask if the girl has ever been to a therapist on the seminary application? Does anyone tell the truth? Do they ever accept anyone if the answer is yes?

Way to discourage and to stigmatize getting help, and/ or to encourage lying about it, I would think…

Pandabeer

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:02 am

Did they ever hear about the concept of tshuva?
What's the point of learning all about how we can do tshuva, how Hashemi judges you the way you're now not 1 year ago.
3 years ago is a long time, and it sounds like once you're made a mistake once you're doomed

amother

Hunter

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:06 am

sequoia wrote:

So the impression I got from reading it was completely dystopian, like an actual literal “Big brother is watching you” kind of situation that for some reason everyone thinks is normal. I sincerely hope the author is just running out of ideas and exaggerating for effect.

Dystopian is a good word to describe it and no, from the comments here it doesn’t sound like it was exaggerated for effect.
We’re not doing ourselves, or more importantly our daughters, any favors by letting this go on, but like a mother I spoke to told me, “I’m not going to be the one to say anything.” And every single person says that.
We’re creating our own dystopian world and dragging our kids into it. Our grandkids too, unless someone brave eventually decides they’ve seen enough.

amother

Steelblue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 10:54 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Stigma exists everywhere. When I apply to corporate jobs, they always ask if I have any diagnosed disability, which I do (PTSD, depression, etc)

I answer no. Legally can it effect my chance at the job? No. Realistically can it effect my chance at the job? Yes.

amother

Crystal

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:13 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

I have never been asked if I have seen a therapist on a job application. or a college application

amother

Almond

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:17 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

They're rather asking for such disabilities that require physical adaptations in the workplace.

It can actually up your chances to get the job if its corporate. They're legally required to hire a specific percentage of people with disabilities. So depending on their current stats, it may give the person a leg up over others. (Just like any other minority quotas.)

amother

Steelblue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:42 am

amother Crystal wrote:

I have never been asked if I have seen a therapist on a job application. or a college application

Its very common amongst corporate positions, also its not "have you seen a therapist", but rather asking about disabilities, which some mental health conditions are

amother

Steelblue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:44 am

amother Almond wrote:

Yes but the percentage is very small (I think 5-7%?) and I assume they are more discerning when it comes to higher up positions and manegerial roles.

amother

Hunter

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:50 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

This is an answer?!
Stigma exists everywhere?

When Sarah Schenirer created Bais Yaakov she wasn’t working to create an environment and an educational system that was the same as “everywhere”. She was creating a new system, a safe haven where our girls could experience intellectual and spiritual growth.
Let’s not destroy what she built.

amother

Apple

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:53 am

everybody, this is fiction. I really really don't believe there are seminaries that are like this and need perfect girls. They seriously don't ask about how the girl was in 9th grade.
And not to take any girls from a HS because one time the advisor left out info.. unlikely.

amother

Almond

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:55 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

Its very common amongst corporate positions, also its not "have you seen a therapist", but rather asking about disabilities, which some mental health conditions are

I work in a large corporation and I don't think it's that common. Regardless, I dont think you're comparing apples to apples. When these questions are on application forms, they are for self disclosure. No one follows up or calls therapists/mentors to get some background dirt on the applicant. (A background check is not the same thing.)

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 2:22 pm

Being that they are taking full charge of each girl for the year, they are trying to figure out those who have an issue they will need to manage, and based on past experience, assess whether they think they can do so easily. Like with all positions that are in high demand, they can set that bar however they want. I don't love it, but I understand it.

Some seminaries are going to be more accepting of this than others. Most, of all kinds, have reactive years when they had to deal with a particular issue and found it very difficult so they don't accept anyone with that for the next year. My experience has seen it be significant food allergies, anxiety, etc.

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 2:26 pm

amother Steelblue wrote:

Its very common amongst corporate positions, also its not "have you seen a therapist", but rather asking about disabilities, which some mental health conditions are

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to ask this question upfront at a job interview. Also, I can understand asking - do you have a current disability which will affect your job performance. Past disability? I can't imagine they would ask that or even care.

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 2:26 pm

amother Apple wrote:

I truly hope this is fiction.

amother

Buttercup

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 2:38 pm

amother Burlywood wrote:

I am pretty sure it is illegal, whether mental or physical and whether current or past.
I have a friend with a physical disability. Whenever she has applied for a job, it never came up until after she was hired, and then she'd inform her boss/HR of her needs that needed to be accommodated.

amother

Blonde

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:48 am

mommyhood wrote:

What bothered me was that this advisor seemed to make her decisions on her own out of fear based on one horror story. There was no mention of her consulting with a Rav befroe sharing this information which is a serious lack to me.

This is a common problem among Double Take characters - they never ask daas Torah or for a psak halacha (which this probably is) before acting. If they would consult with a Rav, half of their problems would be solved or wouldn't crop up in the first place. But then we wouldn't have a story, right?

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 4:23 am

Yeah, the craziest part of the story was the "rebbetzin." Um, who does she think is coming to her seminary? A junior version of Rebbetzin Kanuevsky?get real.
No secular influences at all? As much as we try to shield our kids from negative influences, let's be real. Stuff happens.

I was in two different seminaries (one for first year, one second year) and some of my teachers have gone to open seminaries. and this person is totally made up.....I can't imagine any of them being so ridiculous.

It's pretty well known that Rebbetzin Bruria David, a"h, was very into taking self- made girls... Many years at BJJ there was a girl or two from a more modern home, from public school, etc...

rosegold446

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 2:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

What does everyone think about the new Mishpacha Double Take about the mother of the seminary applicant and the seminary advisor?

I think information given, whether for a sem applicant, a shidduch, etc should be based on who somebody is now, not their past.
What if somebody worked so hard to overcome their past struggles? It's absolutely unfair.
This teacher should have only said what is relevant now.