PSA regarding pesach help

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 10:45 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

It's not an argument, it's a clear gemara. "everything Hashem does is for the best". Even - especially - when we don't see it.

אָמַר רַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי מֵאִיר, וְכֵן תָּנָא מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי עֲקִיבָא: לְעוֹלָם יְהֵא אָדָם רָגִיל לוֹמַר: ״כׇּל דְּעָבֵיד רַחֲמָנָא לְטָב
עָבֵיד

brochos 60b.

It's a difficult concept for me (and I think everyone else) because it's almost impossible for us humans to truly accept and believe it. And by accept and believe I mean to to be happy about it in the very same way we would be when something noticeably good happens.

Meaning when 10/7 happened nobody (and I mean nobody) said that since hashem orchestrated the murder, rape, and kidnapping of our fellow jews, it must be good. As human beings we don't have the ability to understand this. We can repeat words, but not really mean it. Imagine how much more so the actual families of the victims felt? Did any of them say 10/7 was good? Are they saying that today?

Aren't we all davening for specific things? Don't we all want health, parnassah, shiduchim and others things? Is there any older single (or her mother) that is ready to concede that if hashem wants the person to be single, lonely, and childless her entire life then it's good? I really don't think this is possible.

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 10:50 am

amother Snowdrop wrote:

Bad? Source? Punishments are often necessary as atonement for the soul- bad in this world but good in the next. I'd love to see your sources. We believe G-d doesn't do bad unto the Jewish people, He does things we can't understand in this world.

The tochacha in parshas bechukosei and ki sovo (I might be a little off on the parshos) describes punishments and terrible things hashem will do to us if we don't follow the torah. I see punishments as bad. Allowing our enemies to conquer and kill is- bad.

amother

Snowdrop

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 11:03 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

No no. The acts we did to deserve the punishments is bad. The punishments are good as they are Divine retribution and ultimately good for the soul and Jewish people on the whole. Throughout the Torah we are told time and again if we sin within the land of Israel G-d will kick us out. And we did. And we were. What was bad? The sinning or the kicking out?

amother

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 11:07 am

amother Mintgreen wrote:

I don't know ops situation.

But I 100% agree with op.
I unfortunately know many poeple that have got degrees and had trouble finding a job.
My neighbor is a cpa but drives a school bus....
My sister too is a cpa, And has her own company....
Both go getters but different circumstances turned out different results.
It's all how HE wants it.

One time it was soon after we bought our house. We were completely house poor. Barely enough for the minimum. Dh used to volunteer on his days off. Came purim time. He was losing sleep. He always got a massive bonus this time if year. But that year he knew company cut down on bonuses. He didn't know how much he'll get. Even though he got more than the average amount, it was still significantly less than other years.
Purim morning rolled around. We get a knock on the door, the head of the org he volunteers for sent him MM. It was a credit for matzoh, butcher and fish store. Right before pesach!
It literally saved the day! Covered all our matzoh, meat and fish and we even had left over that he gifted over to someone else he was helping out with his business
A few years later, his other volunteer position brought about his current job that pays 50k more a year! And now we are bh on the brink of comfortable. And it feels so good to make do with the basics and give kimcha dpischa to the local fund and family that are struggling. And yes, I don't care if that family wears designers.
I'm happy with my life bh.

Hashem has his ways. All you have to do is minimal hishtadlus, trust, daven and be happy with what you have.

Yes, there is teva. But we yidden are mala min hateva. We are above the teva.
Just trust. He always comes thru.

Beautiful post!!!

amother

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 11:11 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Rabbi Avigdor Miller tzl would often say - if someone has a business and has a sign outside his door "coming back in 15 minutes" and the sign is always there - that is not the correct hishtadlus. For those who don't know, Rabbi Miller was a baki in bitachon/hishtadlus and gave countless shiurim on this topic.

It's different if someone makes Torah learning his "business", and even then, as it says in the Gemara - some did so and were matzliach, and some did not do so well. There are definitely kollel people who are living very, very lean- there is no question about that.

For those who say that businessmen make more than doctors - some do and some don't, but doctors do have a more steady income, generally speaking. Also, some people are naturally good businessmen and some aren't, some people like medicine and some people don't. Hashem gave people different natures and abilities, and according to the chovos halvovos, a person should work in an area that he enjoys and correlates with his natural teva. This will be different for everybody.

There's a narrative that I hear too often that whatever is bashert is bashert, so nobody really needs to work too hard, that is wrong and damaging, IMVHO.

Everyone has to do hishtadlus. I agree.
Most people do their best. Here and there there are a few lazy people but most try very hard to make a parnassa.
The point of my OP was that you're not getting less because your neighbor is getting help that you feel entitled to but you didn't receive!
Everyone is getting exactly what they're supposed to get!!

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 11:21 am

amother OP wrote:

Would you say the woman not receiving her gett isn't getting less because her husband is refusing it? Are you saying that she's not receiving her gett because hashem doesn't want her too?

Mommyg8

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 11:44 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

Of course it's a difficult concept, but at the same time, it's one of the yesodos of yiddishkeit.

The gemara argues about whether it is possible to accept things that appear to us as bad in the same way that we accept things that appear to us as good. The answer is that no, we as limited human beings cannot possibly be expected to rejoice on the bad the same way we do on what we perceive as good, that is why the gemara says that when someone dies we make the bracha "boruch dayan emes". When moshiach comes that bracha will no longer be said...as we will see everything as good.

It is absolutely true that we cannot see or feel the good in things like 10/7 and the Holocaust, and neither are we expected to. At the same time, we have to believe that everything that happened - even 10/7 and the Holocaust - were ultimately good even though we can't see it right now. It's hard, and it's not necessarily expected of us.

Yes we daven for specific things because as limited human beings, we see those things as good. We also say "mishalos lebecha letovah"... we daven that these things should only happen to us if they will be good for us, that is a part of many techinos and tefillos. We ask Hashem to give us parnasah, shidduchim etc only if it will be good for us.

Can an older single concede that their life is really good because Hashem decided it for them? As humans, we are very limited and we can only feel what we can see. At the same time, we can believe, conceptually, that everything Hashem does is really for the good, even though we don't actually feel it at the time.

I feel a little funny writing all this as I'm completely not a Rebbetzin, but these are just basics of our emunah.

Mommyg8

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 11:50 am

amother OP wrote:

I think people are questioning that if someone is a bus driver is he really do his best? Or bederech hateva he will struggle more than an doctor? Maybe being a bus driver is not his correct hishtadlus?

If you are a simple worker you will bederech hateva make less than a business owner, this is what some are arguing.

I heard a story that someone asked the Satmar Rebbe for ashirus and he asked him, what do you do ? He said I'm an accountant and I work for someone else. He said, I cannot give you a bracha for ashirus unless you start doing something else during your spare time - sales or the like. You need a keili for the bracha to come into.

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:06 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

The punishments today don't make sense because they are collective. Yes, this is an age old question. But we have no idea why certain people suffer and we have no way of seeing the good. We can repeat the words "it's good", but we don't really understand why random people dying and suffering is good.

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:26 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

I think it's important (and obvious) that when discussing ideas we should look beyond our own personal experience. Bh, things have worked out for you. But what does it prove? What would you tell the family suffering under financial stress the last 20 years? What would you tell the family that has unfortunately needed to be the recipient of tomchei and tzedakah for many years?

Yes, hashem takes care of many. But if we thank hashem for taking care of many then as intelligent beings we should question why he has abandoned others who are suffering.

amother

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:57 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

Would you say the woman not receiving her gett isn't getting less because her husband is refusing it? Are you saying that she's not receiving her gett because hashem doesn't want her too?

If a woman is waiting for a gett and her neighbor is also waiting for her gett, the fact that her neighbor receives hers from her ex doesn't take away anything from the lady waiting for it! If Hashem wanted it they would both be getting their gett.

We ask Hashem for what we need sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes the answer is no. What our friend, neighbor or relative is getting is irrelevant.
In any case I'm not sure how it's similar to the gett example I was only talking about pesach help (and parnassa!)

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 2:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

You said we don't get anything less because of the actions of others. Everything that happens is from hashem and it's all good.

So would you say to a woman who doesn't receive her gett that it's not the fault of her ex who is refusing, it's really hashem who wants her to be an aguna, and it's also very good?

amother

Cinnamon

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 3:37 pm

Didn't follow the whole thread but just want to add a personal story that really illustrates this point.

Last year, my husband's super kind and generous boss completely forgot to give pesach bonuses. Now, my husband is the sole breadwinner, and where I live (small European community with very little competition, no outlets or discount stores for non-food items etc) pesach is extremely expensive. It's a small heimishe business, so if he forgets, he forgets. It's not like he has a manager who is in charge of these things.

I will not pretend it wasn't hard for me. But we both tried to remind each other, as disappointed as we were, that it's not the boss who provides our parnossa but Hashem. and we davened that we should manage to pay our pesach bills, one way or another.

In the end, money came in from unexpected sources - my husband won an online survey which he had taken part in without even realising it was a competition, and we also received a cash gift from someone unexpectedly as a token of appreciation.

My husband is a person who lives a life of bitochon, and I very much believe that it's his calm and trustful attitude that earn us these types of yeshuos.

amother

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 3:52 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

I didn't say anywhere that's its good.
Our hardships also come from Hashem.
Our sicknesses, our lack of parnassa also come from Hashem.
I didn't write anywhere that it's good.
Her ex-husband is the shaliach that is making it happen and I'm sure he'll pay for it in olam habba.

If you're an aguna I'm really sorry for your situation and I hope you get out of it.
My post had nothing to do with your situation, unfortunately yes everything comes from Hashem, the good and the bad.
My post was explaining that other people getting something good does not take away anything from anyone else.

amother

Ghostwhite

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 4:02 pm

amother Cinnamon wrote:

I've actually always had this question. You say that you have a personal story that illustrates *this point*. I'm assuming you are referring to the idea that hashem takes care of people that have emunah and bitochon. As in your story. The boss forgot the bonus, you guys needed the money, hashem sent it in other ways. It's a happy story.

My question is whether your story illustrates anything? (I'm leaning towards saying it doesn't, but respectfully, I'm not sure.) Meaning in this world does hashem protect the people who have emunah more than the people who don't? Are they living longer? Do they have fewer miscarriages? Do they have less parnassah problems? Do they get cancer less? Did they do better during covid? Anything?

I would love to believe that what your saying is accurate. That when we do what we are supposed to do, hashem responds in a way we can see, understand, and measure. But does he? I don't think so. Do you?

amother

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 9:10 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

Try it!

You might be surprised!
https://www.dailybitachon.com. you can get a 10 minute whatsapp message everyday of you like it!

amother

Oldlace

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 7:55 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

The people that have bitachon look at every event be it parnossah issues or other,t as opportunities for growth and a way for them to wipe their sins on this world. They don't bemoan their lot and question why them. They know it was custom made for them and since Hashem only does good even when we can't see it, it's ultimately the best for them. It doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt and that they are not in pain, they just see their pain as something higher. And they don't feel punished by Hashem, they know and feel that although it's painful it's for the best.
I would venture to say that an agunah is really suffering very deeply, and it's in her best interest even if we can't fathom it. Since we don't run the world and we are not upstairs looking down.
We don't know what this agunah needs to rectify from a previous gilgal and so on. There are so many intricate cheshbonos going on, even Moshe Rabbeinu couldn't understand it.
The point is that we have to trust Hashem that whatever He does is in our best interest even if it doesn't appear to be that way. Every single event, also the Holocaust, October 7 and so on.

amother

Ghostwhite

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 8:53 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

I think the bolded is not accurate. In fact, very not accurate.

The emunah books that are popular are full of stories where the people with emunah and bitochon had a positive ending where things worked out. The man was poor/sick, had emunah and wasn't worried...and got better. You'd have a hard time finding a story that ends the opposite way.

The emunah hotline is also full of one story after the other of how people who have emunah achieve good results.

The poster above wanted to illustrate this point by with her story. They were short on cash, husband's dh forgot his bonus....hashem sent the cash another way. See what emunah does?

Hashgacha pratis stories are all about happy endings.

And this type of thinking makes sense. Davening is about stating hashem's greatness, and also about our personal needs. We constantly ask hashem for specific things. We constantly say tehilim for yeshuos and refuous. We do segulas to achieve specific good outcomes. We just benched rosh chodesh and asked hashem for specific good things to happen to us. We didn't say, "hashem we trust you and whatever you do is good". No, instead we said give life, peace, tranquility, parnassah.....

And now we try to say that really we trust that we don't really need anything good. Yes, we ask hashem all day for health, bracha, hatzlacha, parnassah, and everything else, but we're really ok if he c'vs does the opposite. I have a hard time accepting that. We're not ok with the opposite and we never will be.

Mommyg8

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 9:02 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

And that is why I don't listen to these bitachon hotlines. I think their approach is wrong. In fact, I don't even understand logically how that works.

It's all very nice that Mr. X had a child after waiting 20 years, but do you think the Chazon Ish, the Satmar Rebbe and the Lubavitcher Rebbe were not great enough?

ETA: the real way to look at bitachon is to see the positive even when it seems bad. Because everything Hashem does is ultimately for the good.

Also, to explain why we daven for parnasa, health etc... we do our hishtadlus and we daven. It is only AFTERWARDS, when we tried our best and it didn't work out, that we can say it was for the good.

And btw I know people IRL who had emunah and bitachon and davened... and nada. These real life stories don't make it to the bitachon hotline, which can be deceiving.