My daughter’s wig is so long

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:15 am

amother OP wrote:

Essie14, that’s a big assumption. Why would anyone with seichel think they can control outcomes? But I can look back at my marriage and parenting and wish I had done things differently, because absolutely how you interact with your kids and your spouse affects them and who they become. Otherwise why would we work so hard to improve our parenting and our interactions with our spouses, if we thought it would make no difference?

But why would tou assume that the reason your daughter is wearing a different covering than you has snything to do with how you parented?
I dress differently and cover very differently from my mother. The reasons have zero to do with how I grew up and everything to do with things in my adult life.

amother

Stoneblue

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:21 am

amother OP wrote:

My other daughters got complimented for their accomplishments or their middos. Today, as young adults, they care about styles and like to look put together, but don’t spend a huge amount of time thinking about what they look like. This dd always did. She would feel a lot of anxiety about her appearance, and still does, even though she hides it better now because it’s not socially acceptable to act like a high schooler.

When she was younger I should have asked adults not to focus on how she looked, and asked them to compliment her for things that are deeper than looks. For myself, because she was interested in clothes, hair, and later on makeup, and because I heard in parenting classes to meet the kid where they’re at and talk with them about the things that matter to them, I talked with her about that stuff. That was what excited her so that’s what we talked about (even though I was careful to always say that externals don’t matter beyond the basics). I would also talk about how the gashmius today is so out of control and difficult for the younger generation, but she always laughed that off with the attitude that I don’t get it.

I was busy with my younger kids and one with a medical issue, plus working full time, so I didn’t have tons of time. I should have tried harder in the time we did have to talk, to talk about things she did for chesed, or things she was learning in school. She wasn’t excited about those topics but I should have tried harder to get her excited about them. I should have shared more about things I was learning or things I was working on in avodas Hashem. She didn’t have a natural interest in those things, so I didn’t, because I focused on connecting with her over things she cared about.

I always thought she would outgrow this over time. But now I feel like I didn’t properly prepare her for life. If I could go back in time I would try very hard to give her attention for different things. I feel so much chiyus in yiddishkeit that I don’t think she feels (yet). I know part of it really is a maturity thing, but my other daughters have more depth and they’re in their twenties too.

Ahhhh if only humans were so simple. You compliment them more on certain qualities, that’s what they decide to prioritize. Yeah… no.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:24 am

amother OP wrote:

She may yet surprise you - dont close the door on her yet. Kol Od Sheh'Ha-Ner dolek efshar ode leTaken.
What you see may not be what you get.
Besides, when the Torah tells us that Yosef Ha Tzadik was busy curling his hair, did it mention Yaakov correcting, criticizing or rebuking him?

You were trying to bend her to your image of how she should be. You cant. She will be what she was intended to be, she will have her challenges and all we can do is love them, be there for them, give them our best - help them and let them know we are there for them.
Wishing you lotsa nachas from all your crew.

dena613

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:28 am

OP, it would hurt me, too- very much so- if my dds wear long sheitels one day. (They are too young to be married Smile

but I discuss adult tznius topics like sheitels and nail polish even with my young daughters, hoping to instill the proper hashkafos in them.)

Please don't beat yourself up. Even with what you explained, the way you were mechanech this daughter couldn't have been that dramatically different than your others.

Every family with more than one child will tell you that each child has their own personality and techunas hanefesh. There are those who are born with an innate sense of certain middos, not because of you at all.

Ruchi Koval was interviewed a while back on DMC podcast with rivki silver and alex fleksher. (you can find it online, but possibly not on meaningful minute because DMC is no longer part of MM.) She's the mother of several children (I think 7), 3 of whom are OTD. the topic was parenting. She was dicussing that we do what we do as parents, try to model good middos and yiras shamayim, try to put them in schools that will impact positively, try to enrich them in meaningful ways... Try to set them up for success both physically, educationally, emotionally, and spiritually...
And what they end up doing is up to THEM.
at the end of the day, they have their bechira.

I have a child who is bli ayin hara very unique in many ways. At PTA, dc's teacher said, "it's a credit to you and your husband." I said, "no, it's not us. It is this child." (Teacher should meet my other kids!!! LOL

)
Dh and I are the same humans and parents to all.of them. They each have their own inborn natures and techunos.

OP, your dd is young, and she may change. But even if she doesn't, try to.focus on the other parts of her. You sound like a wonderful mother who is caring and sensitive to her.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Mint

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:32 am

Hi op, I didn’t read all the posts bec it was too long to read. But here’s another perspective . Maybe her husband absolutely loves a long wig and together they decided to get this one. In certain circles long is completely accepted. It’s different than what you’re used to, but often as young marrieds they haveto navagate so many things and if this long beautiful wig makes her shalom bayis blossom even more ; then you can try to look at it from that perspective. Bh hashem is giving my children beautiful shalom bayis. It’s hard to look past it, but remember all you put into your child is inside their heart, and it can be a bump, or a change, but she’s the wonderful girl that you brought up . Not getting up yo daven might be a totally different reason, maybe she wasn’t feeling well, or newly pregnant or says her own tefillos quietly to hashem. May you see loads of nachas. You’re a really special mother for not expressing your views on your daughter, may she always feel loved in any way she presents herself

chestnut

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:33 am

amother OP wrote:

And what would have happened if you did talk more to her about her chessed, what she learned in school, and avodas Hashem and she still grew up the way she is now? Then you'd blame yourself for not talking to her more about things that actually interested her!

essie14

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:36 am

chestnut wrote:

Exactly. Then you wouldn't have any relationship with her, OP, because she would say that you never understood her as a teen, you never wanted to discuss what she was interested in.
Please cherish the relationship you do have with her. You said it's good.
Please value her individuality and respect the choices she makes.

Ruchi

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 7:39 am

amother Stoneblue wrote:

No I’m responding with my own hurt. Because I and many on here, have been hurt by people like op who made sweeping assumptions about us and judged us for our looks.

OP was not referring to you or anyone else. And if you felt targeted for some odd reason, then thats an issue of your own, that needs addressing.

You have no right to hurt the OP because you felt triggered and hurt by her post, which had absolutely nothing to do with you or anyone else,
OP was talking about something very specific to her home, community, standards, nuances etc. Where do you think you come in to any of this?

amother

Crocus

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 8:14 am

Op it’s very common that a child will rebel from the most frummest loving healthy homes. It can be due to a lot of stuff. Imo if you would have spoken to her more about your values she would have gone all the way otd.
At this point make sure she is accepted and loved by her family and community so that she decides to stay in the loop. She will get busy with her family and send her kids to the same school as the others and iyh she will mellow and her kids will be ok.
The only thing that you could have done different/can still do is encourage her to learn a healthy self worth by haveing hobbies.. She likes nice things so make her in charge of your tablescapes ect … Also encourage experiences such as hiking gardening playing games ect.

readreread

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 8:43 am

amother Maroon wrote:

A messy ponytail just looks messy. Not promiscuous. If people were looking away it's probably because they were embarrassed on her behalf for looking messy, like you'd be embarrassed for a usually neat person showing up with messy, wrinkled clothes. Not because a disheveled look is promiscuous or seductive lol. I don't get the automatic labeling of certain unassuming looks as seductive or assumption that all men are so attracted to every single look in a s*xual way. (Also the use of promiscuous in this instance is way hyperbole....do you know what it actually means??)

I agree. I think it is so unfair to men to assume that they perceive such minor things as s-xual. Can we not trust frum men to have good hearts? Men are not s-x fiends who think a few loose strands of hair is seductive.

amother

Papaya

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 8:54 am

"Can I just say I hate the playing dumb on this thread. I am charedi/ yeshivish. Walk into any down to earth dati leumi community in Israel and see how the women dress- feminine, nice, pretty not necessarily covering elbows or knees but the overall look is generally tzanuah. Walk into some hot event in Lakewood where every elbow is covered but the women look straight out of a fashion magazine. Please tell me which look is more tzanuah. Can we all be real for a second? Longer wigs are zexier. Thats it. Sorry, not sorry."

Sorry, I'm a techy luddite, so I just copy pasted this- this poster is saying it way better than me, and that was exactly the point my Modox coworker was trying to make; natural hair never looks as good as our glamorous wigs do. Yes, we cover our hair and she doesn't, so technically we're in the clear... but let's at least be honest with ourselves. She has no beef in the game, no personal reason to be making that comment- she doesn't struggle with lace vs not lace, etc., because she wears her own **** mousy hair. This was her impression after entering our insular world. I have plenty neighbors who wear short jean skirts and short sleeves outdoors and tanks and shorts at home, heck the rule at school pickup is 'no cleavage.' And guess what? They look way more low key and unattractive in their TJMaxx outfits than we do with our brand name tznius clothes. I'm not looking to start the whole materialism thing here, and yes, halacha is halacha, and women who are covered are covered, period. But why can't we even hear her?? Why are getting so defensive??
I like to think that the fact that there are so many strong opinions here is awesome. It means we care, we wrestle with it, we are proud, strong jewish women. Go us!!

amother

Gray

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 8:54 am

amother Ecru wrote:

When our kids grow up it demands of us a whole new level of personal development.

I have an adult daughter that’s not completely frum and I went through this process in a more pronounced way.

I combed over the parts of her childhood that I didn’t show up enough for her. I felt deep regret and grief. I blamed myself and felt awful that things happened the way they did.

Then at a certain point I came to the realization that this was all meant to be. Like others have said, Hashem gave me just the right blind spots to create the recipe for my child’s destiny. I realized that even though her trajectory was turning into something very different than what I imagined - for my daughter - this is her journey and she’s meant to create some sort of light from this path.

I began to drop the judgement and shift towards acceptance. I realized most of my resistance to her was my ego

My ego wants her to be like me. To love Hashem the way I do. To stay within my comfort zone. To make me look good and feel good.

And Hashem chose differently. Through her journey he demanded so much inner growth from me.

What does it mean to love Hashem if I also make my daughter feel bad? A child can read our thoughts because it leaks out in the energy we carry.

Loving Hashem deeply means loving our kids deeply even if they don’t do things the way we see it should be. It’s seeing the good in them and never stopping to believe in the goodness.

But in order to get there we need to air out the petty side of ourselves. The part that is egoistic and devastated and wanted things our way.

This post resonated with me on so many levels-and I'm saying this from the adult daughter perspective. I wish I can show this to my mother. Especially about the part that children read their parents thoughts based on the energy they're giving out!

amother

Snowflake

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 9:30 am

I just want to give perspective, I wear what you all consider by all definitions very long & lace (front & top) not acceptable type of wig. But I have no chip on my shoulder about it and no one irl has ever given me a hard time, and also I really don't care what other people think because its between me & Hashem. I was thrilled when this became an option because it made covering more tolerable for me.

But I still get OP as a human and as a mother. She clearly is part of a different sub category of community than I am.

As a human this is an emotional challenge inside.

I happen to know of this type of challenge from someone close to me about raising a very beautiful child, where they get so much attention for their looks it becomes a stumbling block to raise them with the same internal values as normal blending in siblings.

If OP had posted this in a different forum and had led with I have one daughter who is exceptionally beautiful over normal and fear she won't be a confident woman from all the focus of everyone being external honestly, would some of you had answered differently? Without your personal issues in the past with wig length comments?

A strong woman needs a strong internal compass and can't think majority of their value to others comes from their looks.

We are tasked with raising our children and its not a passive job of clothing and feeding, but being actively mechanech them. Its normal to struggle internally to some extent adjusting after they are grown up.

safetynet1

Fri, Apr 26 2024, 10:01 am

essie14 wrote:

You're comparing infertility to a shaitel?
There's no comparison.
If you came on here and said that your mother is criticizing you for having a small family when you have SIF, I guarantee you that 100% of the responses would be on your side and would say that your mother has mental illness if she's blaming you for SIF.

This situation is a mother who thinks that her daughter is "exceptionally beautiful " (OP's words) and therefore OP attributes that to her daughter having low self confidence and that OP should have raised her differently because now the daughter has such low self confidence, due to DD's exceptional beauty, that DD is now wearing a shaitel that OP thinks is too long and therefore not tzanua.
Not remotely similar to anything having to do with infertility.
Zero.

She is comparing feelings with feelings.