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-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Pesach
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amother
Geranium
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 Thu, May 02 2024, 9:13 am
I just returned from a program. For seders they had a mix of Jewish and non Jewish staff. I asked the head of babysitting what do they do for seders and she said they do it at midnight when the babysitting time is over (they babysat 830-12) I paid a very generous amount to have this girl babysit for me and I made sure she was told over and over how much we truly appreciated it. Tipping the counselors- we tipped what we could bc it does add up quickly (one daughter had 4 counselors) and these camps were not full day and did not include any meals or late nights.
The only programs I've been on have babysitting as an extra hefty charge and limited hours. I don't think it is a crime to want a babysitter for your sleeping Littles at night. It's our vacation too. But, you definitely should make sure that they are being treated fairly and are working only what they are comfortable with. I felt the program we were at this year treated everyone well and the girls and guys looked really happy.
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amother
DarkKhaki
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:17 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | I just returned from a program. For seders they had a mix of Jewish and non Jewish staff. I asked the head of babysitting what do they do for seders and she said they do it at midnight when the babysitting time is over (they babysat 830-12) I paid a very generous amount to have this girl babysit for me and I made sure she was told over and over how much we truly appreciated it. Tipping the counselors- we tipped what we could bc it does add up quickly (one daughter had 4 counselors) and these camps were not full day and did not include any meals or late nights.
The only programs I've been on have babysitting as an extra hefty charge and limited hours. I don't think it is a crime to want a babysitter for your sleeping Littles at night. It's our vacation too. But, you definitely should make sure that they are being treated fairly and are working only what they are comfortable with. I felt the program we were at this year treated everyone well and the girls and guys looked really happy. |
she said they do it at midnight when the babysitting time is over
Do you think thats normal? Would you want your children having a seder at midnight?
Tipping the counselors- we tipped what we could
Shame on you, if you could afford to go to a program you could afford to tip properly.
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Sebastian
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:24 am
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I dont think a midnight seder is being treated fairly. why couldnt you put them to sleep in strollers?
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amother
Chambray
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:26 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | I just returned from a program. For seders they had a mix of Jewish and non Jewish staff. I asked the head of babysitting what do they do for seders and she said they do it at midnight when the babysitting time is over (they babysat 830-12) I paid a very generous amount to have this girl babysit for me and I made sure she was told over and over how much we truly appreciated it. Tipping the counselors- we tipped what we could bc it does add up quickly (one daughter had 4 counselors) and these camps were not full day and did not include any meals or late nights.
The only programs I've been on have babysitting as an extra hefty charge and limited hours. I don't think it is a crime to want a babysitter for your sleeping Littles at night. It's our vacation too. But, you definitely should make sure that they are being treated fairly and are working only what they are comfortable with. I felt the program we were at this year treated everyone well and the girls and guys looked really happy. |
The way you are describing your program, I would not have supported or utilized a babysitting program which required the girl to eat her afikoman past chatzos. Think about what you are writing. She has to work during the day at the camp, then all night, and only after 12am does she get to have a seder? All so the consumer can enjoy their own seder and then tip what they feel they can afford?
It's not treating the workers well if it's forcing them to have a seder past midnight. They look happy because they want tips and know that a sad face and complaining wont garner tips.
Most of the girls who sign up to work at a program are doing it because they don't have a better option. SOME do it for fun (like OP's daughter I assume). MOST are BTs who don't have anywhere else to go. Young divorced women who feel uncomfortable anywhere else. People like me who had to find another place to go because my own family is abusive and I needed another solution.
Most people don't leave their family sederim and decide to work elsewhere unless they need to. Yes like I said, plenty go with friends for fun, but I'd say out of every group of girls who go for fun, a chunk of the friend group is escaping her family to do this and some friends joined for fun.
Many sem girls in Israel do these programs, not for fun, but because the sems close down for the entire month and they can't fly home and can't spend money on anything else. They are doing this out of necessity.
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:26 am
| Sebastian wrote: | | I dont think a midnight seder is being treated fairly. why couldnt you put them to sleep in strollers? |
My kids have never slept in strollers past infant. They just don't. And don't tell me to stay home. If a program offers babysitting I'm allowed to use it. Only one kid didn't stay up for seder. My other ones did and are still little.
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:28 am
| amother Chambray wrote: | The way you are describing your program, I would not have supported or utilized a babysitting program which required the girl to eat her afikoman past chatzos. Think about what you are writing. She has to work during the day at the camp, then all night, and only after 12am does she get to have a seder? All so the consumer can enjoy their own seder and then tip what they feel they can afford?
It's not treating the workers well if it's forcing them to have a seder past midnight. They look happy because they want tips and know that a sad face and complaining wont garner tips.
Most of the girls who sign up to work at a program are doing it because they don't have a better option. SOME do it for fun (like OP's daughter I assume). MOST are BTs who don't have anywhere else to go. Young divorced women who feel uncomfortable anywhere else. People like me who had to find another place to go because my own family is abusive and I needed another solution.
Most people don't leave their family sederim and decide to work elsewhere unless they need to. Yes like I said, plenty go with friends for fun, but I'd say out of every group of girls who go for fun, a chunk of the friend group is escaping her family to do this and some friends joined for fun.
Many sem girls in Israel do these programs, not for fun, but because the sems close down for the entire month and they can't fly home and can't spend money on anything else. They are doing this out of necessity. |
Please. I am in America and a BT myself. These babysitters made $30 an hour for sitting outside my door reading a book and they had a break everyday from 1-3 and then 5-8:30.
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:29 am
| amother DarkKhaki wrote: | she said they do it at midnight when the babysitting time is over
Do you think thats normal? Would you want your children having a seder at midnight?
Tipping the counselors- we tipped what we could
Shame on you, if you could afford to go to a program you could afford to tip properly. |
You sound so bitter and judgmental. We tipped the suggested amount...I'm sorry is that not proper enough for you?
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:31 am
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The babysitting we had made $30 an hour, kids had to be asleep and on non yontif nights she would schmooze on face time..please tell me how that's abusive.
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amother
Chambray
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:39 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | | Please. I am in America and a BT myself. These babysitters made $30 an hour for sitting outside my door reading a book and they had a break everyday from 1-3 and then 5-8:30. |
Ok. And they still then had to attend a seder past midnight and eat afikoman past chatzos. BH you can't understand what might drive a teen to work at a program. Please try a bit of empathy. Frum kids should not be working seder night. I don't care what they are paid, what they are doing, and how happy they seem. Your vacation does not get to exploit Jewish teens. If yours paid them well and gave those breaks, great! Your program does not speak to all of them. Someone has to watch out for these kids who are being taken advantage of. The program should be hiring non-Jewish workers to sit outside your door and read a book. Just like it's not an option for the rebbitzen to attend a midnight seder, or for the mother to miss her seder, and like it's not an option for anyone to eat chametz on pesach, and just like these programs make sure to have mehadrin kashrus - it should also be expected that the Jewish employees get to attend a seder at a normal time and fulfil the mitzva of eating afikoman before chatzos, just like you.
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:40 am
| amother Chambray wrote: | The way you are describing your program, I would not have supported or utilized a babysitting program which required the girl to eat her afikoman past chatzos. Think about what you are writing. She has to work during the day at the camp, then all night, and only after 12am does she get to have a seder? All so the consumer can enjoy their own seder and then tip what they feel they can afford?
It's not treating the workers well if it's forcing them to have a seder past midnight. They look happy because they want tips and know that a sad face and complaining wont garner tips.
Most of the girls who sign up to work at a program are doing it because they don't have a better option. SOME do it for fun (like OP's daughter I assume). MOST are BTs who don't have anywhere else to go. Young divorced women who feel uncomfortable anywhere else. People like me who had to find another place to go because my own family is abusive and I needed another solution.
Most people don't leave their family sederim and decide to work elsewhere unless they need to. Yes like I said, plenty go with friends for fun, but I'd say out of every group of girls who go for fun, a chunk of the friend group is escaping her family to do this and some friends joined for fun.
Many sem girls in Israel do these programs, not for fun, but because the sems close down for the entire month and they can't fly home and can't spend money on anything else. They are doing this out of necessity. |
The babysitting is $30 an hour on seder night. Why is the consumer at fault? Shouldn't it be the program director? You sound really bitter. The girls were told everything ahead of time and I saw people who were attending the program with their families choose to be working in the camp. Please tell me how awful it could be if their own mothers and fathers were watching this horrible abuse. Before you get on your high horse and put people down please remember everyone has something going on. Maybe we really needed it for reasons I don't want to share here. You have no idea. Please for the love of Gd stop judging!!!
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amother
Chambray
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:40 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | | The babysitting we had made $30 an hour, kids had to be asleep and on non yontif nights she would schmooze on face time..please tell me how that's abusive. |
I'm talking about missing seders. You are bringing in other times.
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amother
Geranium
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:42 am
| amother Chambray wrote: | | Ok. And they still then had to attend a seder past midnight and eat afikoman past chatzos. BH you can't understand what might drive a teen to work at a program. Please try a bit of empathy. Frum kids should not be working seder night. I don't care what they are paid, what they are doing, and how happy they seem. Your vacation does not get to exploit Jewish teens. If yours paid them well and gave those breaks, great! Your program does not speak to all of them. Someone has to watch out for these kids who are being taken advantage of. The program should be hiring non-Jewish workers to sit outside your door and read a book. Just like it's not an option for the rebbitzen to attend a midnight seder, or for the mother to miss her seder, and like it's not an option for anyone to eat chametz on pesach, and just like these programs make sure to have mehadrin kashrus - it should also be expected that the Jewish employees get to attend a seder at a normal time and fulfil the mitzva of eating afikoman before chatzos, just like you. |
They had both jews and non jews. I don't know what to tell you. I guess I'm a horrible disgusting person who went on and on to my babysitter how we appreciated her and how wonderful she was for giving us some peace and quiet when we needed her throughout my stay. Okay??? Like I don't get the point of your post. You think I'm horrible. Thanks.
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amother
Chambray
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:42 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | | The babysitting is $30 an hour on seder night. Why is the consumer at fault? Shouldn't it be the program director? You sound really bitter. The girls were told everything ahead of time and I saw people who were attending the program with their families choose to be working in the camp. Please tell me how awful it could be if their own mothers and fathers were watching this horrible abuse. Before you get on your high horse and put people down please remember everyone has something going on. Maybe we really needed it for reasons I don't want to share here. You have no idea. Please for the love of Gd stop judging!!! |
Last time I am going to say this. No Jewish kid should be allowed to miss seder at a normal time. If they want to or don't want to. If they care or don't care. It should literally not be an option. The program should not allow it. There is NO REASON in the world for the program not to hire non-Jews to watch the kids during seder.
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amother
DarkKhaki
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:44 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | | You sound so bitter and judgmental. We tipped the suggested amount...I'm sorry is that not proper enough for you? |
Yes I think its awful the way you say you treated other people’s kids these babysitters r still kids. You did not say in your original post that you tipped suggested amount you said you didnt tip a lot justifying that because your child was well taken care of my 4 babysitters! Only u know what the suggested amount was and it that is sufficient but u clearly didnt think so based on your original post! Your post came across as selfish and entitled putting your needs for a vacation above treating others properly
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amother
Plum
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:47 am
Context people.
OP's daughter didn't get a seder. FACT
Everyone who uses a babysitter on a programme is abusive. FACT? Sorry, no.
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amother
Plum
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:48 am
| amother DarkKhaki wrote: | | Yes I think its awful the way you say you treated other people’s kids these babysitters r still kids. You did not say in your original post that you tipped suggested amount you said you didnt tip a lot justifying that because your child was well taken care of my 4 babysitters! Only u know what the suggested amount was and it that is sufficient but u clearly didnt think so based on your original post! Your post came across as selfish and entitled putting your needs for a vacation above treating others properly |
Leave her alone. Please!
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amother
DarkKhaki
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Thu, May 02 2024, 9:49 am
[quote="amother Plum"]Context people.
OP's daughter didn't get a seder. FACT
Everyone who uses a babysitter on a programme is abusive. FACT? Sorry, no.[/quote]
Literally no one said this. The programs should hire non jews for seder night. Jewish teens should be allowed to have a seder at a normal hour.
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amother
Bisque
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Thu, May 02 2024, 10:09 am
| amother DarkKhaki wrote: | | Yes I think its awful the way you say you treated other people’s kids these babysitters r still kids. You did not say in your original post that you tipped suggested amount you said you didnt tip a lot justifying that because your child was well taken care of my 4 babysitters! Only u know what the suggested amount was and it that is sufficient but u clearly didnt think so based on your original post! Your post came across as selfish and entitled putting your needs for a vacation above treating others properly |
Cut it out please!! It's not the consumers problem how the program treats their staff!! Consumers are entitled to use any services offered by the program, and how the staff is treated by the program, is not the consumers department.
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amother
Bisque
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Thu, May 02 2024, 10:10 am
[quote="amother DarkKhaki"] | amother Plum wrote: | Context people.
OP's daughter didn't get a seder. FACT
Everyone who uses a babysitter on a programme is abusive. FACT? Sorry, no.[/quote]
Literally no one said this. The programs should hire non jews for seder night. Jewish teens should be allowed to have a seder at a normal hour. |
But this isn't the consumers department. You're bullying the poster as if it's her problem. She's allowed to use the babysitting provided by the hotel. The staff seder, is the program's department, not the consumers.
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amother
Vermilion
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Thu, May 02 2024, 10:12 am
| amother Bisque wrote: | | Cut it out please!! It's not the consumers problem how the program treats their staff!! Consumers are entitled to use any services offered by the program, and how the staff is treated by the program, is not the consumers department. |
Im not sure if that's true halachicly.
If I as a consumer used a frum teenager as a babysitter from 8:30-12:30, meaning there is no halachic way that that teenager had a halachic seder in the halachic time, maybe I do bear some responsibility halachicly.
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