Counselors at pesach program

amother

Bisque

Thu, May 02 2024, 10:14 am

amother Vermilion wrote:

Im not sure if that's true halachicly.

If I as a consumer used a frum teenager as a babysitter from 8:30-12:30, meaning there is no halachic way that that teenager had a halachic seder in the halachic time, maybe I do bear some responsibility halachicly.

I doubt it, because there's nothing the consumer can do about it.
And the staff had their seder at 12, not 12:30.
I'm not saying that this is ideal or okay, but it's not that poor posters fault and she should not be bullied for it.

amother

Bisque

Thu, May 02 2024, 10:18 am

mha3484 wrote:

As much as its not the consumers issue, I agree they are just using a provided service, as a mother I would feel icky being assigned a babysitter who was a Jewish on seder night. So its a little of everyone's responsibility. The program director should do better for the babysitters but we as the consumers can say Id like someone not Jewish she deserves a seder just like me.

Even if the consumer wouldn't use the Jewish babysitter during seder, it wouldn't make a difference if the program doesn't provide a seder for staff till midnight.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, May 02 2024, 10:23 am

amother Bisque wrote:

Even if the consumer wouldn't use the Jewish babysitter during seder, it wouldn't make a difference if the program doesn't provide a seder for staff till midnight.

Benefiting from someone else's violation of halacha seems problematic to me. I would be asking a shaila at the very least before doing such a thing. But honestly, even if it was technically muttar (which I have doubts about), I would not want to do it.

amother

Bisque

Thu, May 02 2024, 10:28 am

amother Dandelion wrote:

What violation of halacha is starting a seder at midnight? Chatzos was after 1. It's technically enough time for a quick seder & eat afikomen at chatzos.
(Not that I think it's okay, but there's nothing consumers can do about it.)

amother

Vermilion

Thu, May 02 2024, 10:39 am

amother Bisque wrote:

I don't know.
Chatzos on the east coast was 12:55.
55 minutes for 2 cups of wine, reading all the words of maggid, matza, maror, korech, a quick bite of food AND afikomen?
Seems very tight.

If you were somewhere on Yom Kippur with Jewish babysitters and you found out that they were being told to break their fasts if they felt tired, do you think the consumers are actually blameless?
Im not sure.

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, May 02 2024, 11:17 am

amother Bisque wrote:

It is not her fault that this is the practice it is her fault for supporting and promoting such practices.
Back to op I am really sorry that this was done so not ok and im even more sorry no parents saw this and spoke up and advocated for your child and the other children there who were taken advantage of

sarahlieba

Thu, May 02 2024, 1:42 pm

amother Geranium wrote:

The babysitting is $30 an hour on seder night. Why is the consumer at fault? Shouldn't it be the program director? You sound really bitter. The girls were told everything ahead of time and I saw people who were attending the program with their families choose to be working in the camp. Please tell me how awful it could be if their own mothers and fathers were watching this horrible abuse. Before you get on your high horse and put people down please remember everyone has something going on. Maybe we really needed it for reasons I don't want to share here. You have no idea. Please for the love of Gd stop judging!!!

So my daughter and her friends were not even gonna babysit but they’re strongly encouraged so they agreed. And I specifically asked who will lead the Seder. First night my daughter was told to leave after the first cup. Second night she had NO SEDER.

Sunny Days

Thu, May 02 2024, 1:47 pm

sarahlieba wrote:

This is really horrible
I hope you’ll find the right person to speak to and they better acknowledge their wrongdoing…

Edited a typo

Last edited by Sunny Days on Thu, May 02 2024, 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

sarahlieba

Thu, May 02 2024, 2:12 pm

OP here again.
I definitely see everyone’s point here. I think it is the program’s fault 100%. They lied to me, tricked the kids and from what I read above about other years, tricked the clients as well. I was reluctant to let my daughter go but figured it’s an amazing opportunity to a) be at a program b) earn money and c) do a chesed by providing babysitting to families so mothers can relax a bit. Plus she begged and begged me to let her go (against my better judgment). I’m not even going to say how tired she came back or how mistreated she felt by the organizer (she said the lady was bipolar). I always taught my children to judge favorably but after I learned she had no Seder that is where I draw the line.
This is not a kosher program. Sorry to say that. Putting a hechksher on something while mistreating workers is just not ok. How can one trust a program’s kashrut after this????
We as Jews have a responsibility.
As a side note, my ex is no longer religious and hates religious people. I told my daughter and her friends not say a word about how they missed the Seder etc. but let’s just imagine his reaction and the bashing that would follow?!

I’m planning to call the organizer and to have a talk with her. Is it gonna make a difference? Not sure. But I’m glad I posted here. The more we are aware of the issue the more we have a chance to correct it Smile

amother

Chambray

Thu, May 02 2024, 2:18 pm

sarahlieba wrote:

I wonder if she was on the program I worked on years ago. If so, no they won't change a thing. They will just get a new crop of kids next year and do the same bait and switch.

Like with all of the pesach programs, it's on the consumer to demand change. Don't go unless you know before you go that the frum kids will have seder nights completely off. This is a question to ask right after you inquire about kashrus of the food. The entire program should be kosher, not just what happens in the kitchen.

amother

Gardenia

Thu, May 02 2024, 2:47 pm

sarahlieba wrote:

I think your daughter can do it again in the future for a better program. It can be an amazing experience done right (I've attended programs both as staff and as a customer). That said, you need to do your research and get in EARLY because the good programs that are good to their staff are hard to get into (because, you know, a lot of the staff returns, because it was good). Do your research, especially regarding staff turnover and how experienced the program is. As I mentioned above, this is not normal or ok at all, and any program I was ever part of NEVER compromised sedarim or Yom tov meals for the staff. Counselors had the option to babysit outside camp hours on chol hamoed and were allowed to charge whatever they wanted (and they booked up fast! You had to book a counselor for a chol hamoed night on erev pesach already). Plenty of counselors also opted out of the extra cash and went to the chol hamoed concerts themselves rather than babysit at night. A well run program takes care of every detail including care for the staff.