Why does shabbat food have to be traditional ashkenazi food?

amother

Mimosa

Sun, May 12 2024, 9:25 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Quote:

mediocre peasant food

I know im late to this thread but I am personally so offended by this post
I love ashkenazy food. I like my gefilte fish my challah my chulent, kreplach, kishka…. Its so offensive to call it mediocre peasant food. Who do you think you are ? Did your mother never teach you “if you have nothing nice to say don’t say anything “
You don’t want to eat my food don’t but don’t put it down. At least have the decency to do it behind our back than to our face.

This!!
Or op might just be a terrible cook, cuz mine and my parents traditional ashkenazi foods are the highlight of the week!!

amother

Royalblue

Sun, May 12 2024, 9:30 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

This!!
Or op might just be a terrible cook, cuz mine and my parents traditional ashkenazi foods are the highlight of the week!!

This reminds me when people say our food is bland (for the record far less offensive than mediocre peasant food). That their food was so bad they had to add loads of spices to hide the awful food.
Tastes are personal preference there is no objective hierarchy. 🤦‍♀️

Tao

Sun, May 12 2024, 9:31 pm

giftedmom wrote:

She called it peasant food

I mean, she isn't wrong though, lol.

If you think about it, Jews have been traditionally poor and traditional food reflect that. Chicken soup? Can use all the bones and unwanted parts of the chicken so they dont go to waste - just boil them up with water and there you have soup.
Potatoes, like in kugel and cholent, were always cheap.
Gefilte fish - again, all the parts of the fish that you couldn't serve, instead of wasting just repurpose as gefilte fish, and sub the rest with cheaper ingredients.
Herring was known to be a very cheap fish.
Gala - also made from bones.....

amother

Royalblue

Sun, May 12 2024, 9:38 pm

Tao wrote:

Well thats the sign of a good cook someone who can take cheap food and make it taste good. Anyone can cook an expensive steak not much needs to be done to it, take a cheap piece of meat and turn it into something delicious thats talent.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Sun, May 12 2024, 10:52 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

I say that all the time!!! And thats a lesson for life. And not just about food! I think its the derogatory comments about peasants and asking why not use sophisticated ingredients.... just social pressure to put down other peoples choices.
The Torah doesnt give us a menu for Shabbos, and if peanut butter and jelly sandwiches do it for you that week, then go for it. Sure the commentaries and zemiros mention Basar VeDagim, but if it were in the Torah,can you imagine the halachos?

It has to be x size, x weight, x color, served on x, with x, eaten in a certain way, leftovers to be treated carefully, etc.

The important thing is the Shabbos atmosphere.

amother

DarkViolet

Sun, May 12 2024, 10:56 pm

Why is everyone so up in arms about OP stating facts/opinion?

Yes, as Tao pointed out, our food is pretty simple. Historically, we were not rich and we were smart and resourcfeul about how we made our food.

It's also true that it CAN be bland. Not always, but it's definitely possible. Obviously, that is OP's expereince.

She is stating her opinion with a question attached. There's nothing wrong with that. Many people answered her question well... It's traditional and people like to stick to their traditions... It's respectful to their mesorah etc. etc.

amother

Brass

Sun, May 12 2024, 11:04 pm

Tao wrote:

The poor didn't have chicken or fish either.

camp123

Sun, May 12 2024, 11:15 pm

one thing I've learned from this is that people get offended way too easily. Or, more likely say they are offended way too easily. I doubt anyone lost sleep over this.
If OP would come to your house and call your food bland that would be a reason to be offended. But, saying that she thinks a particular type of food is bland really shouldn't offend. And she didn't say it is bland, she says she thinks it's bland. I hardly think it actually hurt anyone, nowadays people are so touchy, it's hard to have a conversation.
I think sefardi food is too spicy and Chinese food too greasy, but that's just my opinion be offended if you must. Or, maybe grow up.

Last edited by camp123 on Mon, May 13 2024, 6:34 am; edited 2 times in total

B'Syata D'Shmya

Sun, May 12 2024, 11:33 pm

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Funny, cause the non jews thought we were rich and compared to what they had, we were. We were rich in our resourcefulness. Our Jewish kup...

amother

Lilac

Mon, May 13 2024, 12:35 am

I think there is another point not mentioned here.
Food has a centrality in tradition because it stays in the mind. Cook whatever you want but you want your kids to have a feeling of that's Shabbos food. You know how sometimes you smell something and you go straight in your mind to a specific place? Specific combinations of foods take you to a certain place. If you walk into a house erev Shabbos you want to feel it's erev Shabbos not that you walked into a 5 star restaurant. I change some things around a lot but if you come into my house erev Shabbos, you'll smell fresh challa, potato kugel and cholent. It's a smell of Shabbos. If you switch every week to a different cuisine you are not giving your kids that experience. That's fine if that's your choice. To me it is important.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, May 13 2024, 12:49 am

camp123 wrote:

Geez, one thing I've learned from this is that people get offended way too easily. Or, more likely say they are offended way too easily. I doubt anyone lost sleep over this.
If OP would come to your house and call your food bland that would be a reason to be offended. But, saying that she thinks a particular type of food is bland really shouldn't offend. And she didn't say it is bland, she says she thinks it's bland. I hardly think it actually hurt anyone, nowadays people are so touchy, it's hard to have a conversation.
I think sefardi food is too spicy and Chinese food too greasy, but that's just my opinion be offended if you must. Or, maybe grow up.

Your first word is a shortened xtian word. You may choose to contine using it but know what you are saying. Historically we, as Jews have been tortured by xstians and the word can be hurtful to many.

These past two weeks haftorah have 3 different mesorahs - without detailing, the chosen mesorah is to read the haftora which respects the sensitivities of the kehillah. The Torah teaches us sensitivity to even the G'di who shouldnt be cooked in his mothers milk. So yes, we try to be sensitive to each other and protect one anothers feelings as a lesson from the Torah.

camp123

Mon, May 13 2024, 6:33 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I never knew the origin of that word I will amend my post thank you for pointing it out. I still think we need to be a bit more careful about what we consider offensive. I generally don't think it's helpful to take offence at something that someone clearly didn't mean to be offensive.

DrMom

Mon, May 13 2024, 6:41 am

amother Lilac wrote:

Thanks, but my kids and I do not like to eat the same thing every week so this won't work for us.

I don't know why people are so invested in forcing challa, potato kugel and cholent onto people. Some people just don't like that food!

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, May 13 2024, 6:44 am

camp123 wrote:

OP wrote " I find the traditional ashkenazi shabbat food to be bland and boring, and I'd never go out of my way to cook it. .... but you'll never find a kugel or gefilte fish on my table.
with limited access to spices and good ingredients and developed a cuisine of mediocre peasant food"

Now I will say it in other words, I find your looks to be bland and boring, I would never go out of my way to photograph you, with limited resources, you have become mediocre and peasant looking".

Insulted yet? What if you spent hours watching make up tutorials and really did your best to look beautiful and yet were told you are peasant-like?

Please know my Yerushalmi kugel is never left over, my potato kugel is spicy and warm, you have to keep yourself from thirds, my apple kugel makes you lick your fingers and my spinach kugel or carrot kugel or zuchini kugels or onion kugels are enjoyed as well. My friend makes a pineapple kugel that is aways a hit.
Gefilte fish can also be prepared sweet or savory and served with chrain or spicy mayonnaise etc.

If OP never makes/serves kugels or gefilte, then ok, but dont dis it...

amother

Lotus

Mon, May 13 2024, 7:39 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

It’s “known” to be a bit bland and heavy on the fat and carbs. But many of us love it and that’s ok.

Carbs and fat are the hallmarks of typical comfort food. That's part of what makes it so enjoyable for me to have on Shabbos, even though I typically enjoy a wider range of flavors.

Comptroller

Mon, May 13 2024, 7:50 am

There are two advantages to serving the same meals every shabbos:

1) You don't have to think of a new menu every week and your family can't tell you it's wrong to stay with the same.

2) You could, like the Japanese often do, perfect your shabbos menu thanks to weekly repetition over the years. Perfect the challoh, perfect the chulent, perfect the kigel, perfect the kishke, perfect the gefilte fish.

What I do, personally, is continuity with variation.

My go-to main course for Friday evening is chicken in clay pot with rice. But the rest goes according to season: pumpkin and red cabbage, apples, oranges, honey, with a rather sweet taste in winter, in summer: mushrooms, zucchini, carrots, broccoli, tomatoes with a dominantly salty taste.
Salads, soups, desserts also go mostly according to season, but with some constants...

amother

Daffodil

Mon, May 13 2024, 8:13 am

[quote="DrMom"I don't know why people are so invested in forcing challa, potato kugel and cholent onto people. Some people just don't like that food![/quote]
Huh? Where are you seeing this?!
Find me one person, one person who is forcing these foods into people!
What are you talking about?? Can't Believe It

Comptroller

Mon, May 13 2024, 8:48 am

giftedmom wrote:

She called it peasant food

Maybe it's not peasant food, but it WAS poor people's food.

Gefillte fish: fill expensive carp with cheap white fish (back on those markets)
Chulent: mix little bits of expensive meat with lots of cheap beans and potatoes.

I'm not by any means saying it cannot be good, but the origin is definitely not in great luxury.