Tuition solutions instead of kvetching

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Blonde

Thu, May 23 2024, 3:39 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

Thanks for stating the obvious.
I know they don’t but they should. every child deserves an education and healthcare. N.Y. Is known for its diversity and tolerance. It should begin to tolerate people who prefer to be religious and help pay for the appropriate education especially if they’re low income.

It’s not going to happen so it’s pointless to waste time on this

The people in NY can move to Cleveland and get vouchers if they want if they feel they can’t be religious without government help

Or better yet Eretz Yisroel

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, May 23 2024, 3:40 pm

Govt needs to step up. We need leaders, lawyers advocates that can make this happen on a National Level. Organizations that are serious about this, need to Unite w/ Christian schools in this country , and make this happen .

amother

Hyacinth

Thu, May 23 2024, 3:44 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

So far all the other ideas I’ve read are equally pointless.
We are the voters and we should put all our energy into making this happen. Lobbyists, donors, politicians etc.

I pay taxes yearly to my local public school and don’t use their services. The money should be diverted. I am basically donating to two schools. Public school and my kids’.

amother

Eggshell

Thu, May 23 2024, 3:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

What can we do?

1. Consolidate some schools. Too many smaller schools are a money drain.

2. Make changes in the education system. Stop teaching conformity so that people can make individual choices and learn to live within their means.

3. Stop promoting kollel lifestyle as the only first class option. If we have a healthier balance between workers and learners, there would be more people to support the learners and society.

4. Lower expectations. We don't need shabbatons and expensive trips or the complicated arts and crafts. We are good with the basics.

5. Make changes in our lifestyle to reduce other expenses. I.e. wedding expenses or seminary expenses.

6. Schools should open their books and be transparent.

amother

Petunia

Thu, May 23 2024, 3:52 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

That doesn't always work. You want schools to cut? Where should they cut? Repairs? Programming? Teacher bonuses? Supplies? Toilet paper?

At the end of the day it hurts your kids and it hurts your kids' teachers who put everything into your children. I'm not saying the school should be hounding hard working parents who can't afford tuition and are making reasonable choices. That's why schools fundraise and need to have a donor base to offer scholarships and keep their doors open. But I hate hearing "cut the budget". Maybe your school is "spendy" but ours is definitely not.

They should look at how the more RW schools manage to do it. There is no question that the more to the right you go, the cheaper tuition is.

amother

Eggshell

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:02 pm

amother Petunia wrote:

They should look at how the more RW schools manage to do it. There is no question that the more to the right you go, the cheaper tuition is.

That's because it's supported by a kehillah

amother

Peach

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:03 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

That's because it's supported by a kehillah

...Which is how we should all be doing it.

amother

cornflower

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:05 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

Education is costly. Saving 0.6 cents on copy paper isn’t going to change anything. And it’s 2024. Kids need good air conditioning and nice trips.

Education for 10 kids per family is just not sustainable. Imagine we’d be sending them all off to college as well.

How often do schools go on trips in the US?? In both England and Israel it it's only once or twice a year maximum.

amother

Honeysuckle

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:06 pm

amother Peach wrote:

...Which is how we should all be doing it.

Are you really willing to go Kehilla style? kehillos make strict rules about technology, driving, dress, you name it and if you don’t toe the kehilla line your kid is unceremoniously dumped from the school. If you think the Imamother threads are entertaining now, break out the popcorn if the schools ever adopt the kehilla model!

jj1236

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:08 pm

This is like Rabbi Jeremy Weider's idea. Everyone in the Jewish community pays a certain amount of maaser towards tuition whether they have kids in the school system or not. It's like paying for a shul membership. The main issue is getting the older people who already finished paying tuition to participate. It's a great idea if people actually agree to it.

amother Canary wrote:

The shul I grew up in (go GGBH!) has an innovative system to help the community schools, which if implemented in all shuls could have a massive benefit to the local schools. I dont know all the details, but it's something like this:
The initiative is called Chomesh leChinuch, and the rov encourages everyone in the community to give 1/5 of their maaser obligation to the chinuch fund. (so if someone earns $100k, their maaser obligation is 10k, so they would give 2k to the fund) Then twice a year, they ask all the shul members which local moisdos their kids go to, and the money in the chinuch fund gets distributed to the local moisdos, based on how many kids from shul go to each moisad.

So every 6 months the shul sends out a message saying - on xx date, there were (making up numbers here) 167 shul children in local moisdos, we have given:
talmud torah 1: £24,684
cheider 2: $17,056
beis yaacov 1: $47,123
beis yaacov 2: $12,709
special ed school: $3,678
etc

Since its the whole community paying in to the fund, the burden does not fall just on those with school age kids, and the community members feel like their co-shul goers are benefitting from their maaser money, as it goes directly to the schools that the kehilla send to.

amother

Petunia

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:14 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

That's because it's supported by a kehillah

The litvish schools aren't being supported by a kehillah. They ARE slightly more expensive than Chassidish schools, but only a little.

amother

Amber

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:17 pm

amother Petunia wrote:

They should look at how the more RW schools manage to do it. There is no question that the more to the right you go, the cheaper tuition is.

I think this has to do more with being able to access (state and local) government grants and money, mainly in the tri-state area. RW oot schools have higher tuition than those in NY/NJ (even though salaries oot tend to be lower).

amother

Seagreen

Thu, May 23 2024, 4:27 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

Believe me, the OU and Agudah have spent COUNTLESS HOURS alongside their Christian counterparts trying to make this happen.

I live in Maryland. The Agudah was able to get the government to allocate 10 million dollars to help low income families attend private schools. The legislature has fought tooth and nail (mostly propelled by the teachers union) to try to end this program. This year it was slashed to 9 million dollars. The government budget for public schools is 9.2 BILLION DOLLARS. And yet, we have to fight for our measly 9 million. (which is shared among all the parochial schools in the state).

amother

Babyblue

Thu, May 23 2024, 5:06 pm

I only read the OP, so don't mind me if was already said: I think schools need to work together with the parent body. I'm sure there are electricians/ plumbers/accountants/ contractors and salesmen that have kids in the school. Have everyone contribute time, either in service or consultation at a fixed low price. Find speakers and people who do presentations in your own community - don't spend crazy money to bring someone in. These people live among us!!

amother

Babyblue

Thu, May 23 2024, 5:08 pm

amother cornflower wrote:

How often do schools go on trips in the US?? In both England and Israel it it's only once or twice a year maximum.

Unfortunately, they go on trips way too often.

amother

Sage

Thu, May 23 2024, 6:22 pm

amother cornflower wrote:

How often do schools go on trips in the US?? In both England and Israel it it's only once or twice a year maximum.

My daughters school goes to the park every Lag B'omor
Then in 5th grade and 7th and 8th they go on a big trip like Philly\ Trenton\ Graduation.

amother

Calendula

Thu, May 23 2024, 7:32 pm

What if the schools encourage the parents to donate their maaser money to their kids' schools, as a way of being able to pay more towards tuition?

Yes, I know of someone who asked a shaila and were told it was ok to use maaser money towards tuition (I think the precise phrasing was they could do this if they couldn't pay tuition otherwise). Obviously, people would have to ask their own Rav their own shaila, but it might be something that could be done without putting an additional strain on already tight budgets.

amother

Anemone

Thu, May 23 2024, 8:15 pm

Multi pronged approach but unless administrators want to change and are reading this, we are wasting their time.

- I wanted to volunteer for schools and asked a few different ones (needed hours for a program I was in). No cost to school. They refused even though it would save them money. Look to parent body for help. Sometimes they can get a tax write off for their business (ie plumber, exterminator etc) and school saves money.

- schools can have ways to save parents on tuition. One of my kids school requires a check and only if you don't volunteer a certain number of hours by the end of the year they deposit it. More free labor and the amount is only a few hundred dollars. Labor is worth more than the amount.

- schools can cut back on extras. Fancy crafts, decorations, dumb prizes, renovations... focus on educating and safety. The walls can be a little scuffed, it's ok.

- transparency of the books. Yes people don't want their salaries to be public but parents and donors will be more open to sharing if they know administrators aren't living a fancier lifestyle than they are. A school wrote in an email that due to principal X's trip to Israel blah blah blah. Sorry but I haven't gone on a plane for vacation anywhere except to visit grandparents or to a funeral. Your home is MASSIVE, your car is newer than mine, and you go away to Israel every year or two? We are professionals too... but we rent, car is old, too small for my family, and not fancy at all... I could go on. If people trust the schools, they will be more open to stretching themselves further. But if I know everything extra is going to a vacation fund... not going to make me want to take that overtime opportunity.

- parents should be honest about what they can afford. Take tuition into account when making decisions on life. Don't hide money and don't be house poor as you know you won't be asked to sell it to pay tuition.

- we should lower our materialism as a whole. Camps, seminary, shabbatons... how fancy do they have to be? The swag is out of control. $300 watches and sweatshirts and... for kids. Who will break, stain, or lose them. Matching new sheet sets to camp? I brought my parents worst stained sheets. Stop the conformity.

Treat parents as part of the team and give us respect.
One of my kids schools had a fundraiser recently. I signed up to try to help send the link out. It wasn't required
. Pure volunteer. The crazy amount of emails and the wording made me frustrated and resentful. "Every family is able to raise XXXX" "some parents who can't raise it donate it themselves" "your team hasnt raised anything
So stretch yourselves and give" and other obnoxious comments that implied not giving means we don't care and aren't trying hard enough. Treat us as a team. Thank us and stop making us regret trying to help. We just have no rich relatives and all our friends go to the same school!

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, May 24 2024, 4:15 am

My experience is that it's almost impossible to find volunteers. We gave up on the program requiring a certain amount from parents because it was not enforceable and most parents weren't meeting their quota.

realtalk

Fri, May 24 2024, 5:04 am

I think it needs to be more community funded but instead of just asking for a percentage of maaser, which anyone can opt out of, it should be in the form of a sales tax. Imagine how much money could be collected if even just restaurants (which most people agree is not a necessity) charged .5% extra to create a school fund. Or even round up style like the non Jewish stores do for their charities.

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