S/O "Tzedaka is Finite"

amother

Camellia

Fri, May 24 2024, 8:31 am

amother Papayawhip wrote:

The thing is many of us never had the years of plenty. I mean we were doing a lot better before inflation- and I’m so worried about major tuition increases- so we feel tighter now but we never had the extra money to lease cars or buy Moose knuckle coats. I wonder if those families are affected. It doesn’t look like it. The steakhouses and high end clothing stores do not seem to be doing poorly at all. More keep opening up.

Yeah it skipped over me as well.

I'm talking about the tzedakah organizations now, they seemed to have had lots and lots of unlimited money, bh. By all these masser/tzedakah threads popping up, it seems that things are changing in that direction.

amother

Chicory

Fri, May 24 2024, 8:53 am

amother OP wrote:

We always stretched to give *within our means* to all the places that we were able to. If we gave a lot more to one place, that just meant that that place meant more and it didn't mean that another place is getting less because we gave more to place number one, it just meant that we don't care as much for a place number two.

These two sentences are a contradiction. Mathematically.

You either gave within a certain budget so giving to one took away from another, or you gave without having a budget.

amother

Viola

Fri, May 24 2024, 8:54 am

I am confused. B”H I have the ability to make both minor impulse purchases and give impulse tzedaka, but funds are still limited.

I put my ma’aser in an account and that is the bulk of my tzedaka. Yes, I may put a few dollars in the puska at the supermarket or even pick up a box of diapers for my neighbor who is struggling and pretend I found them in my house and they don’t work for my child, or make a meal for someone in the community and not deduct the cost from ma’aser, but if I write a $500 check to chai lifeline, that $500 is not there when Tomche Shabbos calls for a pledge, and if I give 1K to United Hatzalah, I don’t have the money in the account when the local kollel calls.

amother

Bone

Fri, May 24 2024, 8:55 am

amother Viola wrote:

OOC why are you talking only about such big numbers? Why not $100 ?

amother

Taupe

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:04 am

amother Papayawhip wrote:

We give maaser, we give a monthly amount to tomchei Shabbos and daily giving in addition to maaser, and once in a while we’ll give $18-36 outside of maaser.

When we got our ANCHOR rebate we donated the entire thing to an Israeli tzedakah outside of maaser (we got the rebate therefor you know we are far from rich!)

We live paycheck to paycheck after maaser, bH saving 10% of our income in retirement funds, maxing out our IRAs and additional investments for future simchos. Meaning we put that money away automatically and live paycheck to paycheck off the rest. So don’t have as much flexibility as I wish I did to give more tzedakah.

Im sorry poster but that is not living pay check to pay check.

Living pay check to pay check is not bring able to give maaser, not having anything to save and not bring sure if you can pay xyz if needed.
Not at all what you describe.

amother

Junglegreen

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:06 am

amother Bone wrote:

I’m Not at all rich. But I’d cut a lot of things before I cut my charity. I believe that if we are generous with others, Gd is generous with us. So no I’m not stingy with my tzedakah and give as much as I can (certainly more than maaser)

Wow I sort of take offense at being “stingy with tzedaka” if I’m giving maaser. From what I understand if someone wants to give a chomesh (1/5, 20%) for example, it’s a shaila for a rav. For the average person it’s not a given to give and give out of budget if there are other expenses and debts they’re responsible for.
Who will it help if I give extra tzedaka now I can’t pay my son’s camp bill on time?

However. I have a more rigid personality. Maybe that’s what this boils down to, too.
The nature Gd and therefore perspective Gd blessed us with.

amother

Junglegreen

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:08 am

amother Taupe wrote:

(When I’m paycheck to paycheck I still often have maaser bec we do immediate direct deposit into another account. So I may not be able to pay the gas bill yet this month :/ but have money to give for tzedaka)

amother

Foxglove

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:21 am

We don't sit down and calculate each day, week, or month exactly how much to give. We have a general idea based on previous year what the overall goal amount is and we have a couple of particular organizations we send monthly donations to that we base on what we sent the year before. Obviously when the neighbor kid comes collecting for his school, or my friends send me links for fundraising campaign I will usually donate to that too - but small amounts. We don't sit and calculate until the end of the year, and so far we've never come up short. Usually 2-4% over.
But while we are not wealthy and money is sometimes tight (meaning not much left over for extras), we're also not struggling to pay our bills and put food on the table. I would imagine that people on budgets tighter than ours are in fact calculating and staying in bounds of how much they are going to give because for some people a few extra $18 donations here and there is simply not a possibility.

amother

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:21 am

amother Chicory wrote:

These two sentences are a contradiction. Mathematically.

I hv a strict budget. Always had. Except tzedaka.

When we had <$1000 in the bank & losing more each month, if something was impt, we squeezed $18 out. When we had a bit more, $50. But impt places, we try to give s/t. We weren't counting, 'I gave there, so I can't give here'.

I keep a spreadsheet & go on periodically to make sure we are giving at least 10% & also because that fulfills the obligation (acc to our lor) of 'setting aside'.

My point is, with tzedaka, it's not always an either/or, with everyone. Maybe threads where ppl get mad that organizations they don't support, whether kollel, kimpeturin heims. etc are getting $$ because those ppl would be forced to give elsewhere, are really off.

I'm wondering if ppl say no to some tzedaka because they gave to others (I hv 100, I'm giving you 50 and therefore the other only 50,) and are so cheshboned, or they iuve each what they would regardless. They only feel Org A is worthy of 50, even if they hv 50 to spare or 200. They have maaser plus & dole it out according to personal importance.

amother

Chicory

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:30 am

amother OP wrote:

Sounds like you're saying you didn't budget for Tzedaka purposes so it wouldn't be taking away from somewhere else.
Reality is that for most people it just doesn't work that way.

amother

Blueberry

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:45 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't think everyone is that cheshboned. And that's the point of my poll.

Yes of course people have limits for things but just because someone chooses to give to one place doesn't mean that that means that THEREFORE, they're not giving to another place.

In the 17 years were married, we have never once said, oh no! even though we want to give to this specific organization we can't, because we already gave to a different one. Even when things were tight. We always stretched to give *within our means* to all the places that we were able to. If we gave a lot more to one place, that just meant that that place meant more and it didn't mean that another place is getting less because we gave more to place number one, it just meant that we don't care as much for a place number two.

And even if it might come up once or twice it's not that typical. The same way I was comparing to clothing. If you have a little bit of flexibility, when you buy something you buy it and you're not saying because I buy this I'm not going to buy xyz.

Yes there are people who need to be more calculated as is obvious from the poll and the comments, but I'm wondering if that's the majority or the minority.

A. You seem like you don't know what it's like to really be struggling. My expenses are beyond my income. We literally don't have enough. Hopefully short term but it's our reality.

B. "Within our means" means exactly that- it is finite. Maybe you don't give organization #1-3 as much because you know there will be a #4 that asks. But as money is by definition finite- you don't have as much as you may want to give to as many organizations you want to.

amother

Ruby

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:46 am

Of course tzedaka is finite.

Even taking your example, OP. If you can buy another skirt, you just might, if you really like it. But would you buy another 10 skirts? Even if you don't have a strict clothing budget, every person (especially financially savvy people) has some sense of how much they're spending on clothing and when that number is getting too much.

For some people the "extra skirt" is $18 to a campaign, for some it's $180 to a poor family member, but once it gets to truly large numbers, they are very much coming out of a tzedaka budget, even if that budget is not clearly delineated.

Are you trying to say that all the extra mini donations are enough to fund everything? That's highly improbable.

amother

Fri, May 24 2024, 9:58 am

amother Blueberry wrote:

I've had years where I couldn't chip in $10 for sibling gifts. We always had food on our table, def some years no meat, maybe yt, we definitely had months where our bank balance was negative and our savings account was less than $1,000. But never literally $0. (We actually almost did get there and we saw amazing yad Hashem, but thats its own story), but one thing we never counted is tzedaka and I guess maybe it's worked for us bh. The check size got bigger but the amount of places we give to is still not counted and never was.

I will say though...I asked my husband his opinion and he thinks that similar to what other people said, a few years ago, especially with all the refunds from covid for businesses and loans you didn't have to pay back, people were extremely flush with money. But It's not just schools that are struggling, bmg is also having an issue covering their committed checks but they aren't blasting it around because if people know they're struggling then it psychologically makes them think it's not in style to give anymore and then they don't give...

And while there are definitely people that will give without thinking so much, and he agreed with me that sometimes if someone is very into a certain cause and they give them a lot of money, if they don't give them money that doesn't mean that they're going to give it to a different organization because maybe they don't care about any other organization . But, he says, there are also many wealthier people who will have, say, $30,000 to give and if somebody calls them up and convinces them that X organization is so great, if Y organization calls after they'll say sorry I just gave my big check out, or I hv X balance. We personally don't act like that so much with tzedaka, but many do.

The point of this thread was that I was curious how many people are more like my personality and how many people are more budgeted when it comes to tzedaka.

I found it fascinating and eye-opening to read the way everyone does say and it definitely helps me be more accepting and understanding of everyone around me, so thanks!

amother

Fri, May 24 2024, 10:02 am

amother Ruby wrote:

I never cared for ten skirts... and I guess similarly we don't have that many places that we are desperate to give to so we can't give to all of them. We have family, schools, a few mesivtas, bm ( are these places considered like schools also?) & then maybe 2 or 3 organizations we give monthly.

Personally we do not give to kollelim, because we help family members directly and I find that it more sensible when supporting someone who's learning, when I know what's going straight to the person, than to give it to the organization who will obviously have to use some of it for administrative costs.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, May 24 2024, 10:12 am

I guess the only thing I can say is that you actually have no idea what it means to be tight
To not be able to put anything except true emergencies on the credit card because you have no way to pay it.
To be in the store trying to decide if you should buy milk or eggs but not both.
And then you get the hatzala call. And you want to give. But you need to buy pads for your teens. So you decide to buy the cheaper pads and give $5 to hatzala.
But then RCCS calls. And the shul building campaign. And then your kids shoes split down the middle.
What are you going to do? Tell your kid "sorry, go barefoot I have to RCCS".
I can't rationalize giving that $5 above maaser to RCCS (or any other tzedaka) while my child doesn't have shoes.
Should I just put the shoes on the credit card, knowing that I cant pay that bill?
Should I put RCCS on the card knowing I cant pay

I think there's a tremendous lack of understanding what "financially tight" means.
Im a regular family in Lakewood. Next door. In your kids class.
Forget skirts. I hold off on underwear purchases many months.