Aliya: where might we fit?

DVOM

Sun, May 26 2024, 10:49 am

Good afternoon ladies!

This post has been over a year in coming. My husband and I are considering Aliya. Posting this here is our first baby step towards this possibility. We've done no research otherwise.

There are many big obstacles.

We have 5 kids, a mix of ages from teens to toddler. We'd need to find schools for them that are a good match. Which leads us to our next obstacle.

Where would we fit in? My husband is Israeli. He comes from a Israeli yeshevish family, and left Israel for the states as a teen because he couldn't see any place for himself there. I'm not even sure where we fit in here in the states, let alone where we'd fit over there. When I try to describe us, all I can come up with are a mish-mash of odd details. I'll put them down here because they're the best I've got. I'm hoping this information will generate some ideas of communities and schools that might be a fit for us. We'll be in Israel for the month of August, and would want to take that opportunity to do a first visit to communities that might be a good fit.

Finances is another big question. But the question of where we might land is in my mind a bigger one. If we can't find a community we can be comfortable in, talking about the nitty-gritty details of transferring credentials and selling our house will be useless.

So this is us. Please excuse how silly some of this must sound:

My husband and I have college educated careers. My husband doesn't wear white shirts. I wear sandals in the summer. We aren't yeshevish, but we live in Lakewood and have been happy here. My 3 year old daughter is currently running around outside in a bathing suit. We send our oldest to an out of town Chofetz Chaim high school; we love the emphasis on middos and mussar, and will send our other boys there for HS if we stay in the states. My husband rarely misses a minyan. He learns daily, and loves it. We make simple, homemade simchos by choice. We love to hike and camp together. We all love to read and are big readers. I rarely censor my kids books. My oldest, 16, has begun reading adult level books; we'll often read books together and discuss them. We have very little screen time in our home. My kids each pick a movie to watch for their birthday, and that's about it. We would not be against our boys or girl serving in the army if that was what they chose. We don't need to live in a big town. In fact, we'd love to live in a more suburban setting.

Does a place for us exist?

LovesHashem

Sun, May 26 2024, 11:39 am

Sounds like you'd fit in a chardal community, right wing dati leumi.

I have some friends who sound pretty much like you, overall hashlaficly and halachically they do the same things as most chareidim/yeshivish people I know but there's difference in the dress, army, sherut leumi, and some minhagim.

I think there's a poster here who made aliyah within the last few years and integrated into such a community in RBS, but there's many many other communities of English speakers like that I believe in
Efrat, Modiin, Maaleh Adumim, Raanana, etc.

jerusalem90

Sun, May 26 2024, 8:33 pm

DrMom wrote:

I think you'd fit in fine in any torani/DL community.

I agree. I read what you wrote and didn't see anything suggesting you need right of DL. If this is true, it is is good news for you because it means you have tons more options. Many DL limit screen time for their kids, even if it is not for religious reasons but because to be honest, screen time is just bad for kids. Almost any DL community in Israel would be great with you having simple smachot. There may be 1 or 2 rich communitites that would look down at you, but I don't even know where those would be, none I've ever lived in.

You said you'd be okay with a son or daughter joining the IDF. If you meant that, I'd say you are just DL. If you meant to say son - IDF, daughter - sherut leumi, then could still be middle of the road or RWDL/torani. Most RWDL and chardal people would not want their daughter joining the IDF, even though they wouldn't kick her out for it.

If I'm not incorrect in my assesment, you can let us know othing things on your "wish list" such as city, moshav but near a city, near a hospital, etc.

I'm curious, what does your DH say? He's from Israel right? Does he have any ideas where to (or not to) go?

Reality

Mon, May 27 2024, 1:22 am

DVOM wrote:

If you and your husband can get past the clothing, you will fit in just fine in a torani community.

Are you OK sending to a school where the Rebbeim don't wear black and white? Can you send to a school where the principal wears a big kippah sereguh?

If you can get beyond the clothes, you will discover an almost perfect fit for your hashkafos. A hashkafah that has a warm and loving teacher-student relationship, very low gashmius, stressing the love of our homeland through nature etc.

amother

Lightyellow

Mon, May 27 2024, 2:32 am

The previous posters answered about you but I'm more concerned about your kids since they are big already. What type are they? You said they go to out of town Chofetz Chaim schools - those can be pretty right wing.
Are your boys comfortable socializing with girls?
Do they only wear white shirts and black pants? Can you see them marrying a girl who wears sandals and a mitpachat?
You didn't mention your girls, but if you have any - what are they like? I would not pull a girl out of a Lakewood Bais Yaakov and deposit her in a Torani/DL community, even if her parents can fit in.

amother

Iris

Mon, May 27 2024, 2:39 am

amother Lightyellow wrote:

The boys could fit in in a chardal yeshiva high school, those are pretty RW. Or, alternatively, look into someplace like Maarava or Mesivta Beit Shemesh. Officially charedi, but they learn secular subjects. They're not places for dropouts, the learning is on quite a high level, from what I understand.

For the girls, I don't think OP mentioned what type of school they're in, but there are options for them, too.

DVOM

Mon, May 27 2024, 3:46 am

jerusalem90 wrote:

Regarding IDF service, it's hard to know what I truly think, as my only daughter is 2 years old.

What would you say the differences are between a plain DL community and a RWDL/chardal community?

DVOM

Mon, May 27 2024, 4:00 am

jerusalem90 wrote:

I will definitely post our wish list!

Regarding my husband:

My husband grew us very yeshevish Israeli in Jerusalem. He left close to 20 years ago. He's very uncertain about where we'd fit in, often because he has the old biases of his community of origin to contend with. He doesn't trust his knowledge of different communities, because what he was taught to believe about them is probably not what they're truly like. He also feels like communities have changed significantly in the last 20 years. (For example: he grew up chanting that playing soccer is like participating in the חט העגל. Sounds much cuter in Hebrew, because it rhymes. He thinks attitudes have mellowed somewhat in his community of origin over the years. Certainly getting a job, something that was considered shocking and a clear sign of going off the derech in his childhood, has become more acceptable.)

Point is, he is going into this research period with an open mind.

amother

Cerise

Mon, May 27 2024, 4:03 am

Came to suggest בית חגי or תלם. The odds are that anywhere you move there will be some anglos. Those are both yishuvim in Yehuda Veshomron.

I'm DL and work with lots of Chardali ladies. I'd say if we're being superficial - chardal is full head covering, long skirts, many cover their legs completely, no sandals. Many of their husbands are in Klei kodesh, rabbanut, kolel. But plenty also have regular jobs and go to Minyan koveah itim etc. Their youth movements are separate. So even if they have bnei akiva it will not be mixed gender. There are a number of yishuvim with separate bnei akiva.

DL tends to have mixed and separate youth groups so people choose what they want. People dress the full spectrum of everything, men and women. From everything covered, to wearing whatever you want. Less likely to be in learning but there obviously are people who are because DL yeshivos have kollelim and smicha!