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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Toddlers

Lisping

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Motek

Sat, Sep 13 2008, 7:56 pm

mumsy23 wrote:

before then is too young.

I disagree.

You don't want to entertain the idea that it can be helpful and desirable.

You maintain that it's wrong, period.

gotcha

Fine.

no need to do round three, or is it four ...

Clarissa

Sat, Sep 13 2008, 8:04 pm

I asked my speech therapist about this, and she said that, while it's too early to start therapy before the age of 3 or 4 for a lisp (a bit later for the r-w-l problems) it's good to do modeling for the child before then. So, if a kid says, "I'm going to thee Grandma on Thunday," you can model by responding with, "Oh, so you're going to see Grandma on Sunday," so he knows how he should be saying it. Or thaying it, as the case may be.

anon

Sat, Sep 13 2008, 9:28 pm

Clarissa wrote:

Which coincides with what I said:

anon wrote:

Clarissa, I'd be curious what your speech therapist thought about correcting a lisp at the young age of 2, even if a child was not a late-talker. Would she think it's appropriate to directly address it at such a young age (as opposed to indirect, which would be providing a good model for the child - something that is always a good thing.)?

Not that any one therapist is the be all end all on any one topic, but I was curious to know if there was any respected therapist who could agree with this.

Of course any mother could do as she pleases, but that wasn't the point.

Clarissa

Sun, Sep 14 2008, 4:15 am

Yes, my therapist felt as you do, but I doubt that every therapist will agree. I know from my SI person that there are many different opinions on how and when things should be done, which is why parents often want to try a new therapist out when one isn't a good match for the family. She said you can get wildly different opinions about a whole range of topics.

I hesitate to encourage the notion that someone is incompetent or poorly because he or she has different beliefs or training. Keeping an open mind seems to be a big part of the job.

mumsy23

Sun, Sep 14 2008, 6:49 am

Motek wrote:

mumsy23 wrote:

before then is too young.

I disagree.

You don't want to entertain the idea that it can be helpful and desirable.

You maintain that it's wrong, period.

gotcha

Fine.

no need to do round three, or is it four ...

I guess I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, because no amount of research or statements from trained/experienced professionals will change your opinion. To you it makes sense so that is all that is important.

Fine.

anon

Sun, Sep 14 2008, 9:43 am

Clarissa wrote:

Honestly, who even knows what we're arguing about anymore.

I reacted to the original posts on this thread, and I don't even think that Motek is maintaining her original opinions (that a child should be corrected when they are "first starting to talk" and that "3-4 is way too late" to "start" working on the lisp). If we are talking about these quotes, then Clarissa, I can say with full confidence that there are no competent therapists who would agree with these statements. There are so many controversial topics in the speech field, as well as any other field. But this isn't one of them.

If we're talking about playing the "snake" game with a 2 1/2 year old, then my OPINION would be that it's silly and unnecessary and probably won't work...but I wouldn't react to it as emphatically and I would be open to the possibility that there may be some credence to it with certain precocious toddlers.

Ruchel

Sun, Sep 14 2008, 9:53 am

Never thought I would have any kind of info to add... but I received this in my email (I get weekly articles related to my baby's age):

Your 18-month-old's language and cognitive development: Speaking loud and clear
by Dana Sullivan
Reviewed by the BabyCenter Medical Advisory Board

Highlights
New this month: Speaking loud and clear
What you can do
Other developments: Improving comprehension, memory games

New this month: Speaking loud and clear

At a year and a half, most children speak a dozen words (or more) clearly. Besides "Mama" and "Dada," favorite words include "bye-bye," "milk," "cookie," "car," "oh!," and "my." Many 18-month-old toddlers can also link two words together to form rudimentary sentences — sentences without linking verbs or other connecting words. She may say "All gone," "Want ball," or "Me up."

Your 18-month-old probably still does a lot of babbling in imitation of the adult conversations she hears. With increasing frequency, though, you'll hear clear words in the midst of the chattering. (If your child can't say at least two words by now, be sure to mention it to her caregiver at her next well-child visit; your caregiver may wish to test her hearing or have a speech pathologist do an evaluation.)

Tone speaks volumes and your 18-month-old is rapidly figuring that out. Since her vocabulary is still limited, she uses a combination of simple words, inflection, and body language to get her point across. In fact, you may be surprised by how much she can tell you with a just a few words. When she says "COOKIE," she's not merely ruminating about her favorite treat. You know by her tone that what she's really saying is, "I want a cookie — now!"

Many 18-month-old toddlers also begin to refer to themselves by name. It will be a few months before your child can use pronouns (other than the ubiquitous "my").
What you can do

At this stage, it's better to applaud what she can say rather than try to correct her "mistakes." For instance, if she says, "Want cacka," don't correct with, "No, say cracker." Say, "Okay! Here's a cracker!" It's a subtle difference, but an important one. (Some experts believe that over-correction may contribute to stuttering.)

Listen to children's music tapes or CDs together; it's a great way to hone her listening skills and you may be surprised by how many words she picks up from the songs.
Other developments: Improving comprehension, memory games

Your toddler has begun to realize that every toy, every animal, every person, every thing, has a name. And she relies on you for labels. She constantly points at pictures in books and asks, "What's that?" Or she just points repeatedly at the picture until you name it for her. She comprehends many more words than she can say easily and is filing the information away for later.

Sometime between 18 and 24 months, toddlers begin to be able to think about things that aren't present. She knows that her shoes are in her closet and will go fetch them if you ask her to. Or she stands in front of the pantry and asks for a cracker, which she knows is there even though she can't see it. If you want to test her on this ability, play a very basic version of the game Concentration. Hide a favorite toy under two or three blankets. She won't be foiled when she removes the first layer and the toy isn't visible — she'll keep searching. In fact, she'll have fun looking for things that you hide.

• See all our articles on toddler development.

• Shop for toys, books, clothes, gear, and more in our Store.

mumsy23

Sun, Sep 14 2008, 7:13 pm

anon wrote:

If we are talking about these quotes, then Clarissa, I can say with full confidence that there are no competent therapists who would agree with these statements. There are so many controversial topics in the speech field, as well as any other field. But this isn't one of them.

Exactly. I just can't comprehend how someone can just disagree with professionals about a topic they are not educated or experienced in. I guess it is my personality to trust specialists in their field, especially on topics that are not very controversial. I can tell you for sure that this is not controversial among speech therapists and it is peculiar, to me, to have a layman simply disagree without concrete evidence to support her opinion.

Clarissa

Sun, Sep 14 2008, 7:35 pm

I can't speak for Motek, but she did speak to a speech therapist, didn't she? Not a layperson. I guess, as in any field, there are professionals who disagree with eachother. It's nothing to be troubled by -- different ideas and openness to new techniques are what keeps things interesting, and opens doors to all sorts of ways to help clients.

As for me, I'm not doing modeling yet for my kid's lisp, since he's a late talker and is just really getting going with speaking. Hopefully my therapists will continue to let me know what to do as issues arise, until we no longer get EI. Then I'll have to invite the therapists to live with us, of course. I hope they like pancakes.

mumsy23

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 8:48 am

You keep talking about open mindedness and I know its because you think I am close minded and not willing to take other opinions into consideration for therapy. (I'm guessing from the other EI thread). But that isn't true, I love to hear other professional opinions about therapy and different ways of doing things as long as they are evidence based.

I don't know what motek's SLP said exactly because it is kind of cryptic the way it was worded but again, this isn't a topic that is controversial or that therapist disagree on. I know there are many topics in every field that have differing opinions - but really, believe me, this isn't one of them. It's just interesting that you are getting united opinions from at least two SLPs on this site, Clarissa's SLP agreed plus I have quoted an article, a random member posted a different article she got that all take one side and yet, motek, you can't concede to the fact that you are wrong. why?

mumsy23

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 8:57 am

Clarissa wrote:

Oh, and I just wanted to make a note about that other thread because I see it keeps coming up passively in your posts to me. I still feel that it is best to not bring your own materials to EI as it is important to provide therapy in the child's most naturalistic setting and provide a setting that parents can imitate when the therapist is away. I have heard stories of therapists going into homes where all the child owned was a balloon and yet the therapist found a way to target all the necessary areas just using things around the apartment. Having said that, I understand that different therapists have different ways of doing things, and especially seasoned professionals might be accustomed to a certain way have very good reason for not changing or agreeing with the "new wave". I should not have been so absolute in my opinion about therapists who bring a myriad of their own materials to therapy as they bring a lot of other good things to the table that comes a long with many years of experience. Additionally, since I am a recent graduate I have been indoctrinated with ideals and I understand that certain ideas are not always realistic in the real world. It is obviously very difficult and frustrating to have to go into a home 'unarmed' and can not only prove to be unproductive but can upset the families as they may feel like the therapist is not really accomplishing much. I understand that just like there may be many reasons for not bringing materials to session, there are probably as many for the opposite. So, Clarissa, I apologize if I insulted your therapists.

Having said that, I still will not concede that a competent therapist will tell anyone to directly work on articulating the /s/ sound before age 3. LOL

Mimisinger

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:05 am

mumsy23 wrote:

Having said that, I still will not concede that a competent therapist will tell anyone to directly work on articulating the /s/ sound before age 3. LOL

What do you mean by directly working on articulating the /s/ sound? My EI speech therapist is helping my 2 yo (born in June) pronounce the final /s/, as the initial s is too hard, but this will help him to do the s sound in general and work on his lisp.

Last edited by Mimisinger on Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total

Clarissa

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:06 am

mumsy, it's obvious that you are very passionate about your career, and this passion will be the greatest tool in your arsenal. I've seen this passion in my own therapists, and it's so incredible that I'm getting this for free. I have to say that, when my son is discharged, we'll all miss them terribly. Not just my toddler and me, but the rest of our family, including my older son.

Clarissa

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:07 am

[quote="Mimisinger"]

mumsy23 wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

I can't speak for Motek, but she did speak to a speech therapist, didn't she? Not a lay

Having said that, I still will not concede that a competent therapist will tell anyone to directly work on articulating the /s/ sound before age 3. LOL

One, I think you're letting Motek get to you. Why do you care what she thinks?

Two, what do you mean by directly working on articulating the /s/ sound? My EI speech therapist is helping my 2 yo (born in June) pronounce the final /s/, as the initial s is too hard, but this will help him to do the s sound in general and work on his lisp.

I think you're mixing up our quotes in your little quote box.

Mimisinger

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:09 am

yikes, let me try and fix it. I always screw up the quotes

mumsy23

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:15 am

Mimisinger wrote:

mumsy23 wrote:

Having said that, I still will not concede that a competent therapist will tell anyone to directly work on articulating the /s/ sound before age 3. LOL

I really don't know what to say about this. Your child qualified for EI because she couldn't pronounce the /s/ sound? There has to be more to the story as it is utterly inappropriate to target /s/ with 2 year olds. That is a later developing sound, most two year olds can't pronounce it properly and most of them learn to say /s/ on their own without therapy. Why your therapist is working on it, I don't know - like I said, there must be more to the story....

mumsy23

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:17 am

Clarissa wrote:

You are very lucky to be receiving such great therapy

Mimisinger

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:19 am

mumsy23 wrote:

Mimisinger wrote:

mumsy23 wrote:

Having said that, I still will not concede that a competent therapist will tell anyone to directly work on articulating the /s/ sound before age 3. LOL

No, I did not say that he qualified for EI because of his /S/ sound, but rather that she is working with him on it. It is a later developing sound, but she's still working with him on it.

mumsy23

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:49 am

mimi, I figured... I don't know why a therapist would be targeting the s with such a small child. My 3 and a half year old daughter distorts her s and I wouldn't dream of getting her therapy at this point. I know it is a later developing sound and she will eventually perfect it. And if not, I'll worry about it then - at 4 or 5.

mumsy23

Mon, Sep 15 2008, 9:58 am

A population study developed norms for different sounds. By 4 and a 1/2 75% of children were able to pronounce the /s/ correctly. (Kilminster and Laird 1978). So if only 75% can do it by 4.5, why work on it with a two year old? Scratching Head

OTOH if the child has a really different way of lisping (like sticking her tongue out on the sides so that it is a really 'juicy' /s/) then therapy maybe warranted earlier.

Of course, a full evaluation by an SLP is necessary to warrant such therapy and still does not validate the idea of the general population correcting their own 1-3 year olds when they lisp.

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