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Forum -> Coronavirus Health Questions

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fleetwood

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:12 pm

taketwo wrote:

Am I the only one who believes the vaccine is meant to prevent people from dying, not necessarily from testing positive? Scratching Head

No. This is exactly what the vaccine was meant to do. It never was supposed to grant full immunity.

amother

Seashell

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:16 pm

taketwo wrote:

Are you sure? Symptomatic or asymptomatic covid? Did they differentiate? I don't recall that claim. I recall the claim of preventing SERIOUS illness and death in 97%.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru......html

Straight from the cdc itself. The vaccine is 95% effective against lab confirmed corona. That has been the narrative all along. Its just not true though.. Those with the vaccine can get covid and transmit it. They are a risk to everyone else the same way the unvaccinated are.

amother

Seashell

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:17 pm

fleetwood wrote:

No. This is exactly what the vaccine was meant to do. It never was supposed to grant full immunity.

Not according to the almighty CDC

amother

Peachpuff

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:17 pm

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

The problem with Israel is that they were in multiple lockdowns and many people never got covid the first time so now there are many people who are getting sick for the first time but are already vaccinated so how do we know that they are getting delta? Maybe they are just getting covid for the first time and the vaccines just dont work. And their govt banned HCQ and other life saving medications so its impossible to know if vaccinated people are better off than the non-vaccinated people.

And the problem with trusting the cdc is because they are playing games and manipulating numbers which we have been seeing for a while now. So just bc they say that people are getting delta now doesnt mean that this is the truth. How do they know that people are getting delta? Are there different tests? And are the doctors allowed to give HCQ and other life saving medications or are people just being intubated even though we already know from the start that its not the right way to treat covid? Are patients with the vaccine being treated differently than patients who didnt get the vaccine?

ETA: we are hearing reports of people getting covid on fully vaccinated cruise ship and airplanes etc so its not valid to claim that vaccinated people dont spread covid on a greater level than non-vaccinated.

There have been approximately 854,000 covid cases in Israel out of a population of approximately 9,000,000. So about 9.5% of the population. Percentage-wise, those numbers are not so different than in America—34,200,000 covid cases out of a population of approximately 328,000,000–about 10.5% of the population. Further, regarding treatment availability, the mortality rate in Israel from covid (~0.75%) is less than half the mortality rate in the United States (~1.8%). https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

What evidence is there for “the cdc…playing games and manipulating numbers which we have been seeing for a while now”?

This paper describes how state health departments (in this case, Washington state) sequence and monitor variants of coronavirus:

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals.....t.pdf

Regarding cruise ships, they are confined environments—diseases of all kinds can spread like wildfire on them and we have seen this with covid many times. They represent an unusual environment—conclusions about more typical environments really cannot be drawn from them. In general, broad conclusions need larger and more robust data sets to be reliable.

amother

Latte

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:18 pm

fleetwood wrote:

No. This is exactly what the vaccine was meant to do. It never was supposed to grant full immunity.

According the the trustworthy cdc it was supposed to be 95% effective at causing one not to test positive for covid.

"Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected".

amother

Lemonchiffon

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:19 pm

Delete

Last edited by amother on Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mommy

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 9:19 pm

amother [ Melon ] wrote:

It’s scary, but Israel seems to be the testing site for the vaccines?? They get the vaccines first, and now they’re the first to get the booster shot…

amother

Seashell

Thu, Jul 22 2021, 11:31 pm

One thing I noticed on this thread is those who are pro the vaccine only know unvaccinated who got covid and those who are anti the vaccine only know vaccinated who got covid. Its kinda funny.

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:11 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

One thing I noticed on this thread is those who are pro the vaccine only know unvaccinated who got covid and those who are anti the vaccine only know vaccinated who got covid. Its kinda funny.

I personally don't know anyone who currently has Covid.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:21 am

southernbubby wrote:

I personally don't know anyone who currently has Covid.

I guess it depends where you live. Its making a come back in the tri-state area.

southernbubby

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:25 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I guess it depends where you live. Its making a come back in the tri-state area.

I live in Monsey but I have been spending lots of time in the Catskills. Nothing has been closed due to the need to quarantine.

losingweight

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:30 am

I just want to know if the people getting the virus now are getting it for the first time or reinfection. Regardless of vaccination status.

DrMom

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:33 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html

Straight from the cdc itself. The vaccine is 95% effective against lab confirmed corona. That has been the narrative all along. Its just not true though.. Those with the vaccine can get covid and transmit it. They are a risk to everyone else the same way the unvaccinated are.

- I think this data may be true for pre-delta strains, but the efficacy against preventing infection against the delta strain appears to be reduced (by how much is a matter of some disagreement).

- If a vaccinated individual does contract covid, the vaccine reduces the chances of this infected person developing a severe case of covid.

- As far as transmission goes: Vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the disease to others. There have been numerous studies published about this.

Therefore, it is incorrect to assert that the risks to (or from) vaccinated vs. unvaccinated individuals are identical.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 12:41 am

DrMom wrote:

Please share studies regarding vaccinated vs unvaccinated in regards to transmitting delta

DrMom

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 1:48 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Please share studies regarding vaccinated vs unvaccinated in regards to transmitting delta

Transmissibility, all other things being equal, correlates positively with viral load. Since we know vaccinated infected people carry a much lower viral load than unvaccinated infected people, it stands to reason that vaccinated infected people are less contagious than unvaccinated contagious people are.

Here are some articles that explain this:

https://news.arizona.edu/story.....ected
https://www.theatlantic.com/he.....9336/
https://www.medrxiv.org/conten.....283v1

Note that when the delta variant infects somebody, the resulting viral load is 1000x higher than when somebody is infected with the original strain, so that at least partly explains the higher transmissibility of this variant.
https://www.nature.com/article.....986-w

If you have sources that demonstrate the contrary, please share.

fleetwood

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 6:25 am

amother [ Latte ] wrote:

Exactly. It was never 100 percent.

Iymnok

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 6:39 am

There is so little talk about previously infected, but not vaccinated.

amother

Seashell

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 8:43 am

DrMom wrote:

I understand but given that fact that many are still getting decently sick, as evidenced but the fact that many are sick enough to get tested, maybe they dont have a lower viral load. The studies neveristwd numbers of viral loads in vaccinated vs unvaccinated for comparison.

small bean

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 9:02 am

I don't know anyone who currenlty has covid. Anyone sayinf they only know vaccinated or unvaccinated either knows very few people or the place they are getting their information from is not being honest to them.

Anyway this from Israel today..

Pfizer shot — the vaccine given to nearly all Israelis — is now just 39% effective against infection, while being only 41% effective in preventing symptomatic #COVID19, according to new statistics of the Health Ministry (Times of Israel)

amother

Chicory

Fri, Jul 23 2021, 9:37 am

Personally, I don’t know of anyone—vaccinated or not vaccinated—who has recently tested positive. However, if you’re basing things on your personal observations, have you considered that in your circles, people who are unvaccinated are also less likely to test even if they’re feeling symptomatic?

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