Is it possible to transition teenagers to plant based diet?

amother

Mint

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 7:59 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

Not at all, not all people like all foods. If someone has an aversion to a food, they are not saying they are smarter than Hashem, they are simply saying that a food is not to their taste.

I am a woman in her 50s who has experienced decades of prejudice from frum Jews who for reasons I don’t comprehend take huge issue with my vegetarianism. I truly hoped things had improved since the 80s but your posts show otherwise. I am still baffled why so many people care about what I personally put in my mouth. With all due respect, myob.

Sorry OP, I didn’t meant to derail your thread.

No one cares if you're vegan due to health or food aversion, just don't expect me to agree to the theoretical reasons for veganism like animal rights & why are we more important than the cow we eat etc. I get avoiding factory farms but you can avoid that if you really want.

amother

Green

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:04 am

amother Butterscotch wrote:

OP- what do your teens say about all this?
If they are happy about it, then go for it
Have you had this conversation with them?

My oldest DD is Whole Food VEGAN. Her kids were brought up like that since birth.
They don’t know anything different
But socially it does hurt them, and as they get bigger, the oldest is 10, it gets harder for them.
1. They know they are different
2. They look with wanting eyes
3. On theRARE occasion the mom allows something vegan a little less healthy than what they are use to they binge eat, knowing that this is their only chance.
4. Because they don’t really like it they mostly eat pasta with sauce, or rice cake with honey and nut butter. That’s ok, but not when that’s 98% of their diet.
5. They longing look at others plates
6. I’m not 100% sure, but I think the oldest has snuck non-vegan food.

For me it makes it hard because when I visit the grandkids or they visit me I need to keep all their dietary restrictions in mind for ALL the grandkids

I have relatives (2 different families) who were brought up that way. There was a lot of the big eyes, feeling different and sneaking food and even stuffing themselves with the "forbidden " foods.

Those kids are all in their 30's now. You want to know how it turned out?

Majority choosing the style they grew up with in their house.Some eat animal products, some for health reasons, some because they chose meat, but bh no known eating disorders.

Aside from doing it correctly or incorrect ly, I believe that different people do well on one vs another way based on their specific nutritional needs and body. Its not one size fits all.

amother

Green

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:14 am

giftedmom wrote:

Sure sure
“Protein is a social construct”

You make no sense. Ask any dr. how many nutrition courses are part of medical school. The answer is usually one. The first year. For one semester.
Nutritionists are trained for this, not doctors.

And BTW, its not protein that people lack if they suffer ill effects of vegan ism. They end up lacking vitamins and minerals.

keym

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:17 am

The truth is that this is no difference between this and any other new thing.
You can't transition teens unilaterally without resentment and anger. Hey if your kids are anything like mine, you can't transition the toilet paper without a to-do.
You need their buy-in, their cooperation, their willingness. You need to be willing to try and experiment with dozens of different recipes until you find the ones that they prefer.
You need to be able to listen to their experiences and come up with compromises when it's not working for them.

It's actually the same premise as a family starting to keep kosher or chalav Yisroel with teens. Compromising, creativity, and usually a large budget for "no questions asked" eating out of the house.

I am not weighing in on whether it is or isn't a good choice. But once you are doing this, don't do it in a way that ruins your relationship with them or their relationship with food.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:19 am

amother OP wrote:

Less guilty? I never asked for approval.
I opened the thread for tips how to transition.
I don't really feel like sharing details will help at this point since the thread has become highly opinionated.
I am not quoting studies and the like because that wasn't why I opened the thread and I am not interested in how the diet I would like to switch to has been turned into a controversial topic.
I am pretty confident about it and didn't come on here to debate about it's validity.

I guess in the end only people who have researched this appropriately are able to be helpful.
And this turned into something else.

nope
you are conflating two topics
we have researched this diet
and with supplements and care it can help some people some adults and we have implemented it for ourselves -- proper protein supplemented B12 B vitamins amino acids etc many things that come easily from animal products in balance...and not go top-heavy on grains carbs sugar...

the issue of imposing it on a family and upon teens...no way no how for so many reasons including emotional

and kids and teens do have different nutritional needs and the motivation to do this diet properly and in a safe and healthy manner has to be there as well

amother

Dahlia

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:30 am

amother Smokey wrote:

Just so you know. I was vegan. I felt benefits for a short amount of time. But it’s really a stupid way of eating and not healthy at all. Too much fruit is terrible for your teeth. Too much vegetable is terrible for your gut health. Eating man made proteins and tons of soy is bad for your immune system and other organs. Look at any tribe that still exists. They eat meat and vegetables. No grains. Grains are also not great for your system on a daily basis.

You should definitely be doing more research. A soy boy is a huge turn off to most women. I’m I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s effecting men’s sperm - which is happening at an all time high these days.

Again, you’re harming more animals and bugs in the fields of some vegetation than you are a cow that’s being fed grass and grazing in a field on its own.

out of interest which animal proteins are good for the gut?

do you know in general which foods are gut foods?

what is called to much vegetables?

amother

NeonPink

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:34 am

amother Smokey wrote:

Too much meat is linked to many diseases such as cancer and heart disease.

amother

Yarrow

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:35 am

amother OP wrote:

It's easier to cook same for everyone, a better diet, and less temptation for those in the house trying to stick to plant based.

When I was a teenager my mother switched to plant based.

She still cooked 1 animal based dish for supper each night and the usual animal based foods for shabbos.

She ate the rest of the food.

So as for convenience, I wouldn’t consider it especially inconvenient to cook a simple animal protein dish each day. In fact you can have the teens take turns doing it for you.

Regarding your second point, less temptation, I’m not sure why people are being tempted to eat things not on their diet. How old are they? You can certainly buy fake meat and chicken to address that issue. I don’t think it’s fair to put everyone on a restricted diet because someone will be jealous.

amother

Yarrow

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:38 am

amother Smokey wrote:

A soy boy is a huge turn off to most women. I’m I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s effecting men’s sperm - which is happening at an all time high these days.

You’ve gone off topic here, but this is exactly why I’m not feeding my baby soy based formula. I’m curious if there are any studies on it.

amother

Butterscotch

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 8:46 am

amother Green wrote:

Also it makes no sense to attack non meat eaters. I know so many teens and younger who subsist on nothing but complete junk and eat no nutritionally redeeming foods. I know lots of grown up who refuse all fruits and vegetables. They don't get called out on it.

We are not calling out op on her dietary choices
We are calling her out on pushing it on others

amother

Cinnamon

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 9:24 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

You are not “mandated” to eat meat if you are a vegetarian. We have the korban Pesach on our Seder plate without myself or other vegetarians eating it. Someone should ideally eat it, which they do in my house, but a vegetarian or vegan cannot be forced to do so. Some vegetarians put a roast beetroot there instead. I really don’t appreciate being told that my lifestyle isn’t “consistent with the expectations of the Torah.” My understanding is it is also inconsistent with the expectations of the Torah to publicly revoke or embarrass a fellow Jew.

There are several issues being confused here.

We don't eat the meat that's on the seder plate. The korban pesach is for when moshiach comes. Amother Skyblue was saying that, the fact we will be mandated to eat the korban pesach when moshiach comes, shows us the Torah's view on eating meat.

Having a beetroot on the seder plate strikes me as wrong. That's different than an individual saying that they don't wish to eat meat. That is saying that you philosophically disagree with the eating of meat as a matter of principle. I would definitely speak with a rav about whether a beetroot is acceptable on the seder plate.

lamplighter

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 9:30 am

I have another idea OP.
Play it out in your head or with your spouse/good friend.
How will it work?
Will you tell them that from now on you're eating differently and why? What will you say if they say they don't want to?
Will you not tell them and just start cooking differently and what will you say when they ask for "normal" food ie foods they are used to and want?

IME parents who have the most success implementating healthy eating habits in children that continue through adulthood are the ones who model healthy eating for themselves and let the kids make the choices themselves. I've seen many teenagers choose to eat more healthy and that's the kind of home they came from. Almost every teenager and young adult I know that chooses unhealthy eating with unhealthy habits came from a home where they were forced to eat with restriction.

amother

Skyblue

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 9:34 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

What we put on the Seder plate isn't the korban Pesach, it's just zecher lemikdash. Some people eat it, many don't. I'm talking about the actual korban Pesach, which we ate in the past and will hopefully eat again soon. There's a mitzvah to eat that meat.
Not to stuff yourself with brisket 5 times a week, but once in a while the Torah tells us explicitly to eat meat. So you have to say that in those cases you're prepared to do it, for the mitzvah. And the kohanim lived in part on meat from the korbanos. The Torah assumes meat eating as the default.

If you don't want to eat meat nowadays, fine. No need. But you do need to acknowledge that the Torah sometimes asks us to eat meat. Which makes clear Hashem's position on the issue. If you can't give up your diet even when the Torah requires it, that's a problem.

giftedmom

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 10:01 am

amother Green wrote:

You make no sense. Ask any dr. how many nutrition courses are part of medical school. The answer is usually one. The first year. For one semester.
Nutritionists are trained for this, not doctors.

And BTW, it’s not protein that people lack if they suffer ill effects of vegan ism. They end up lacking vitamins and minerals.

Every child in preschool is taught the food pyramid. You don’t need a nutrition course to know the importance of protein.

amother

Gray

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 10:26 am

amother OP wrote:

I appreciate those trying to help .
Many responses here are out of line and judgemental, certainly not helpful.
I know many people (not necessarily frum) who are for example vegetarians due to belief it is a healthier diet and/or ethical reasons and who decide to raise their children that way consistent with their beliefs like any other parent makes decisions. It is common. The challenge is when they have been raised one way, you become more educated, and would like to switch.
In terms of nutrition there are people making incorrect claims here and I am not sure what there expertise is to say this nutritionally cannot be sufficient or that there is inadequate protein provided in a plant based diet.

Haven't read posts past this one. That being said, I'm on a restricted diet. And I don't like animal protein. I didn't take my vitamins throughout pesach. My body reacted so badly. Needed to get blood transfusion due to anemia And other low vitamin levels. Please don't skip animal protein. Your daughters body needs it.