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Forum
-> Parenting our children
flowerpower
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 Wed, May 07 2014, 6:05 pm
Science doesn't always mean the truth!!! One little guy thats not creditable writes something and posts it on the web and the gullibles believe what they want. When I went to this big ent because my toddler had like 18 ear infections, he told me that he doesn't see any fluid. I told him that with each tooth so far came an ear infection so there must be a connection. He says that science doesn't prove it. Well, experience should! Dr. Shulman asks parents " should I answer you from a dr's point of view or as another parent with experience"?
Last edited by flowerpower on Wed, May 07 2014, 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scrabble123
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Wed, May 07 2014, 6:09 pm
| Dovi'smom wrote: | I was going to cheer on our another with her PhD in this field to debate those who are living in the dark ages.
But I realize it is useless to use real science in the argument when countered with hogwash.
However, I'd love to hear from you on safer threads! |
I once tried to start a "safer thread" for people who are pro-vaccinations. It didn't get as out of control as Peach Magazine, but I stopped following it because it turned it to quite an anti-vax v. pro-vax battle ground. /sigh/
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sequoia
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Wed, May 07 2014, 6:14 pm
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The ironic thing is I am so crunchy and pro-natural... but this just takes the cake.
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Dovi'smom
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Wed, May 07 2014, 6:23 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | The ironic thing is I am so crunchy and pro-natural... but this just takes the cake. |
I assume you're referring to one of those trans-fat free, sugar-free, gluten-free, chock-full-of-things that are good for you cakes, eh? 
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Culturedpearls
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Wed, May 07 2014, 6:43 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | The ironic thing is I am so crunchy and pro-natural... but this just takes the cake. |
You're obviously not as crunchy as you think  !!!
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sequoia
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Wed, May 07 2014, 6:48 pm
| Culturedpearls wrote: | | You're obviously not as crunchy as you think !!! |
I am! I'm into camphor spirits for earache, and tea with raspberry jam for a cold, and gargling with salt for sore throat, and eucalyptus oil and elderberry and cod liver oil and...
But not vaxing is irresponsible idiocy.
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Culturedpearls
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Wed, May 07 2014, 6:52 pm
| sequoia wrote: | I am! I'm into camphor spirits for earache, and tea with raspberry jam for a cold, and gargling with salt for sore throat, and eucalyptus oil and elderberry and cod liver oil and...
But not vaxing is irresponsible idiocy. |
Nah, that's just typical Russian soothers I grew up with! We also did bankes & my family is full of doctors!
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Dolly Welsh
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Wed, May 07 2014, 7:17 pm
There is a feminist strain that dislikes dead white male cold-hearted science. It wants female flavored, gentler, kinder science. It feels there is a mean, cold, male, patriarchal, authoritarian flavor to standard science.
I have the impression the anti-vax population is very female. I know there are male anti-vaxers but I think most anti-vaxers are female, and for this reason.
I am NOT saying every advocate for women has this anti-hard-science attitude, just that the people with this attitude may be anti-vaxers.
Obviously, it's idiocy. There is objective reality, and it is raining whether the weather reporter is a guy or a lady.
But there are people who do not think there is an objective reality at all.
They think it's a cultural construct to say it's raining, and that they can be mad at the weather reporter, and not agree it's raining, if they don't like his kind of person, or the history that produced people like him.
Their feelings about him / her would color whether or not they agreed that it was indeed raining.
So that's what's going on over there. One strand of feminism. They don't know that, probably.
THAT IS WHY it doesn't matter how many children die of disease to these people. They do not want any part of cold, cruelly rational, dead-white-male, patriarchal, capitalist, right-wing science. A part of them would feel useless, powerless, marginalized and trivialized at a personal level, and it would hurt too much, if they accepted it.
Yet somehow it's ok when it's the plumbing. Look, some things are serious. When your water is gushing, you don't CARE if the plumber is a dude you don't like. But that you can SEE.
When you can't see what's going on, your feelings can have their say.
And scientific, logical explanations just reinforce that the cold, male cruelly objective, authoritarians are right after all, and it only hurts worse.
And they also have a few men in their camp. There are always a few.
This strand of anti-science pseudo-feminism is part of a larger attempt to discredit other things besides vaccinating.
An extremely interesting question, probably extremely difficult to answer, is who paid for and distributed Peach magazine.
I would not throw away all copies.
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Scrabble123
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Wed, May 07 2014, 7:22 pm
| Dolly Welsh wrote: |
An extremely interesting question, probably extremely difficult to answer, is who paid for and distributed Peach magazine.
I would not throw away all copies. |
Dolly, I want to figure out just that. I asked for anyone who may still have a copy of the magazine to PM me, but I did not get any messages. That may be because everyone has already thrown it out, or because that thread was/is so out of control that people paid no attention to my request. I plan to ask again once the drama dulls.
Anyways, I'm using an iPad without a keyboard (just the touch kind) so it's difficult to type.
Dolly, you seem like a nice person. Have a great night.
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amother
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Wed, May 07 2014, 7:53 pm
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I just remember a couple of issues ago the Baby & Me magazine had s whole article about vaccination from Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. Anyone still has that issue?
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Thu, May 08 2014, 7:26 am
| Dolly Welsh wrote: | Let someone who has actually been to school discuss that.
And not just one crazy doctor.
I want to know what the profession thinks.
And I am not taking facts from one source even if it is Hashem_Yazor.
I am not trusting scare stories.
The confluence of anti-business thinking and anti-science mentality can be destructive. You do not have to adore the business community to use what they make the way they say to use it. At that rate you would never eat food or drive a car or wear sunscreen. |
I'm at a loss as to what the debate is.
I wrote that the issue people are concerned about is their day old baby getting the Hep B vaccine, which is also given at 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, etc.
Someone who has been to school has to discuss that?
(I went to school.)
This is not anything an MD has to discuss. You can see it right on the vaccination schedule.
The reason I posted that post was in response to your post that 24 month olds may be susceptible to picking up Hep B when playing at the playground.
I understand you are not currently bringing babies to the pediatrician to know the vaccine schedule as it stands, which is why I wanted to help you understand other parents' concerns of vaccinating for a disease at such a young age, even when they're not playing in the playground.
One does not need to be an MD to state facts like that.
I'm a little confused why I can't post such a thing.
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amother
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Thu, May 08 2014, 1:06 pm
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | I'm at a loss as to what the debate is.
I wrote that the issue people are concerned about is their day old baby getting the Hep B vaccine, which is also given at 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, etc.
Someone who has been to school has to discuss that?
(I went to school.)
This is not anything an MD has to discuss. You can see it right on the vaccination schedule.
The reason I posted that post was in response to your post that 24 month olds may be susceptible to picking up Hep B when playing at the playground.
I understand you are not currently bringing babies to the pediatrician to know the vaccine schedule as it stands, which is why I wanted to help you understand other parents' concerns of vaccinating for a disease at such a young age, even when they're not playing in the playground.
One does not need to be an MD to state facts like that.
I'm a little confused why I can't post such a thing. |
Maybe if you "went to [medical] school" you would know that the hepB at 24hrs old recommendation came about due to a very high risk population of babies facing likely exposure to hepB who would likely have little/no contact with medical care after their initial hospital discharge following birth. And if you are a responsible mom who plans on bringing her baby to every well visit as your pediatrician recommends, they will actually prefer you defer the initial vaccine in the hospital and wait for your doctor to start the series later in your baby's first year. I have no problem with you knowing who I am, btw. I am only anonymous because this is the first time I have bothered to respond to the vaccination debate this time around and in the course of debating, we usually end up revealing more and more of ourselves in terms of education and occupation. Hence I will stay undercover.
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MaBelleVie
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Thu, May 08 2014, 1:15 pm
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Amother, HY knows that and she agrees. Have you been following this thread? Unless you weren't actually addressing her...?
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Dolly Welsh
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Thu, May 08 2014, 2:49 pm
"I wanted to help you understand other parents' concerns of vaccinating for a disease at such a young age, "
But there's no concern.
The mom talks to the doc and a schedule is recommended based on family circumstances. They then go with what is going to work for that particular situation.
This is not a vaccine issue. I have no idea why anybody would have anything to say about it. It seems reasonable both ways, 24 hrs and not 24 hrs, depending on circumstances, both are ok.
In the present climate it might be good to be careful. I had the impression HY was anti vaccine but no, she's not.
Under a doc's guidance vaccine schedules can be tailored, but, people of sense vax.
So fine.
In the present climate one might be careful.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a time to be very careful.
A lot is at stake.
The reputations and lives of the Jews are at stake.
This current attempt to LURE devoutly religious people (xtians too) into becoming reprehensible extremists, nut-cases whose wicked superstitions cost lives, is devilishly cunning.
They already think our beliefs in general are wicked superstitions.
But with the ant-vax thing, they have a way of making our beliefs ACTUALLY HURT PEOPLE.
Among other things, this anti-vax thing is an attack on TRADITIONAL RELIGION.
Before, our beliefs were just, well, our beliefs. So what. It doesn't hurt anybody if we won't shake a guy's hand, wear pants, eat a cheeseburger or answer the phone on Saturday.
But - if they can tar us with disease deaths - then they can really mobilize the end of traditional lifestyles, using public outrage.
Pogroms to follow.
Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Thu, May 08 2014, 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dolly Welsh
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Thu, May 08 2014, 2:51 pm
What deaths?
Their children under six months, and their cancer-survivor immune-deficient grandma? How's that?
When their chidren under six months get the deadly childhood diseases because there is an Orthodox Jewish kid in the playground who wasn't vaxed, and we have become famous for not vaxxing, hmm, not good for the Jews.
When granny, and auntie whose immunity wore off a long time ago, were waiting in the supermarket check-out line with Those People in Long Skirts, Black hats, headscarves, and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of their sneezing non-vaxed kids, and now they are terribly sick, hmmm, not good for the Jews.
We MUST not get a reputation for being The People of The Non-Vax, and that means we must NOT DO THAT THING.
Vax.
The life you save may not just be from disease. There are other ways to die.
Ask your grandma.
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MaBelleVie
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Thu, May 08 2014, 3:03 pm
Dolly, most parents don't even know this is something to discuss with the pediatrician. The baby is in the hospital nursery and he gets the hep b shot, whether mom knows or not.
Second, you make it sound as though all docs are pleased as punch to make customized vaccine schedules. The truth is, many are not.
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imasoftov
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Sun, May 11 2014, 5:53 am
| amother wrote: | | Grow with trust in Hashem... Hmm... don't see how you trust in Him if you have to vaccinate. If you trust Hashem enough , you will see that He will protect your kids without vaccines. You seem to trust your doctor like he is a god. |
Did a rabbi teach you this?
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