Don't bring your kids

amother

Seashell

Mon, Aug 28 2023, 11:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

Sorry but if someone has an issue with a baby being brought to a wedding there is something seriously wrong with them .

Little babies don't take spots at tables don't eat the food don't run around. I even made sure not to bring the stroller inside. If you find the mere sight of a baby offensive I have to say there is something really wrong.
I cant help you.
To all the posters saying I did something wrong. Sorry but I really don't agree with you.
And it seems the mere thought of small children in the same city as a Simcha taking place really offends you.
You really need to sort out your priorities

Little babies sit in carriages (although you at least have the presence of mind to not bring the stroller in). I've been at wedding where there were so many strollers around that it resembled a store during the height of the shopping season.

A wedding is a formal event. It is not a tzedakah event or community party, or any informal event. The hosts pay a fortune for the formal meal, and the hall is set up accordingly. Having so many strollers scatterred throughout destroys the ambiance of the event. If you bring your baby to a wedding, hire a babysitter and keep the baby in a separate room.

I do see some people hold their babies. I don't enjoy sitting next to someone holding their baby because it interferes with the conversation flow. Its hard to have an enjoyable conversation when you're frequently interrupted by the baby. And I fail to understand how any mother brings a baby to dancing. The music decibels are so loud, it is literally damaging to the baby's ears. How can a responsible mother bring that onto her baby?

It is not a mere thought of a child that offends us. It is just that adults should be able to have some events that are for adults (and older kids) only. Not every single thing in our lives need to include kids. It's ok for adults to have adult lives too.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Aug 28 2023, 11:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

Want to know if this is reasonable or am I overreacting.
We had a close family wedding. My husband's brother married off a kid. Like we are actually aunt and uncle to the chosson and kallah my kids are first cousins to them.
It's also pretty rare that the whole family gets together so an event like this in my opinion is when cousins get to actually see each other.
Anyway they invited us to the wedding but told us only the big kids are invited.
Problem is I can't exactly leave the little kids behind for 5 days.
It's not like this is a local wedding where we go and get a babysitter for the evening and done.
It's a flight away we would be there for a full 5 days. So we brought the little kids with us anyway. Mind you they don't put us up or anything. We arranged our own hotels and food for the entire time.
The day before the wedding we get a text we heard you brought the little kids as well do not bring them. Please get a babysitter..
I didnt go to the wedding other than switch off with my husband for 10 min to run in and say mazel tov.
Is that a normal thing to say to your own siblings? About first cousins?
Also mind you there were at least 40 kids running around that wedding. It's not like this was an adult only event. Then I would be a whole lot more understanding. But there was plenty of kids there. This is cousins! How could they be so rude ?
Or am I overreacting?

Even my mother in law who heard that I wasn't at the wedding in the beginning because I had to stay with the kids said yes we told her not to bring them. Totally fine that I wasn't there.

Did you ask them to help you find a good babysitter?
They were clear that they didnt invite your children, you could have skipped the whole affair.
Normal isnt the issue, this was their simcha and they decide who to invite. You said there were 40 kids, all the children of siblings? In other words were other first cousins included and yours not?

While I wouldn't have done what they did to a first degree relative, a similar thing was done to me by a second cousin. We have a huge family, a small budget and know that the relatives don't cover their plate (meaning having second cousins kids would be come out of our pocket).
Twice, the same relative just brought their kids to our simcha despite the specific wording on the invite. They made a big thing out of it when they came, telling everyone that they knew that they were asked not to bring the kids but what a shame to miss an opportunity to see everyone so they brought them anyway.
My MIL totally backed them up, winking at them that they did the right thing and how wonderful it was etc. She did not offer to pay for their seats nor did the gift cover it.
I didnt have seats for them, but they sat their kids down at at table anyway, so I had to spend the time at my simcha rearranging seats, approving the caterers understandable request to approve the increase number of settings etc. The way it worked, meant I had to approve opening another table for 10 for her 4 kids, so it cost me much more.
Afterwards my MIL chided me for not including all the second cousins children...and how embarrassed she was that her cousins grandchildren were not included (remember huge family here).

Sigh, and life goes on.
OP just move on and accept this was the way it was....not worth machlokes.

tichellady

Mon, Aug 28 2023, 11:40 pm

amother Seashell wrote:

Ok but what you are talking about is not what the op is talking about. I don’t think anyone here thinks everything in our lives needs to include kids. There is a big difference between that and what op is describing. You seem to be missing the point

amother

Bronze

Mon, Aug 28 2023, 11:43 pm

amother Seashell wrote:

Conversation flow at the meal, not the chupah, presumably?

I've never been to a wedding where the music was low enough to have any conversation flow.

I've also seen babies wearing noise cancelling headphones.

amother

Seashell

Mon, Aug 28 2023, 11:54 pm

tichellady wrote:

I don't know. I think a lot has not been disclosed here and we are all trying to read between the lines. I wish OP would clarify so that we all wouldn't be running on assumptions.

If OP wasnt planning on bringing her kids to the wedding, and just brought them along for a vacation, why didn't she share her plans with anyone? A quick word to her SIL or MIL, would have avoided all this. I just speak for myself, but if I would bring my kids along when they were specifically not invited, I would have made sure to mention my plans to someone.

Also, what was OP's plan for the wedding then? If she wasn't planning on bringing them, did she hire a babysitter? Or was her 10 minute pit stop at the wedding her original plans? If so, is she simply upset at being spoken to rudely? It's never appropriate to be rude to anyone, but I give the host the leeway here. She is in a state right before her simcha, and someone arrives to town with little kids in tow. That someone knows that kids aren't invited and hasn't taken any measures to assure the folks that the kids won't be attending. I can easily see how a nervous host can react like this.

As for weddings itself, I don't think anyone can really judge. Every family is different and has their own unique circumstances. We can't know why the host made her request and she may have very good reason for it. As guests, we are supposed to honor our hosts request, and when it will be our turn to host we are then free to make our own choices.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 12:00 am

tichellady wrote:

Well wasn’t she invited to the wedding? And if the issue is about money then saying that may have made the op feel a lot less terrible about the whole thing. Not being able to afford something isn’t an excuse for making people feel excluded.

The host doesn't need to disclose her reasons for the guests. Why must she tell her that she doesnt have the money for it? That's nobody's business.

I'm just trying to picture a wedding from my family if all the cousins kids would be attending. I come from a very large family, it would probably end up looking almost like a school's lunch. Never mind the extra cost for all the kids tables. Instead of being grouchy about this, I understand that it's just not doable from a hosts perspective. BH - our family has grown tremendously. The downside to that is that we can't bring all generations under one roof at simchas. I think it's a beautiful tradeoff though.

tichellady

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 12:12 am

amother Seashell wrote:

It’s not the cousins kids. It’s the cousins! And if you don’t invite relatives then there are ways to do it that are kind and gentle and ways to do it that are not. This isn’t rocket science

notshanarishona

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 12:29 am

amother OP wrote:

To respond to all the questions....
No I never intended on bringing them to the wedding. I have no idea how they found out we brought them to their city and their text a day before the wedding seemed a bit off ...like who freaks out that kids gasp will be brought to a wedding and makes sure to send a message when I'm sure there are a million other things to take care of. Just seemed like they really over did it. I spoke to another sister in law who said they texted her 3 times to remind her. She said chill I wasn't planning on bringing them in the first place. They said we just want confirmation your not bringing them. When they texted us the day before we responded no worries we have a babysitter. That was it. We didn't create issues for them.

Why did I bring them through all the travel ? Because happens to be I have a relative from my side of the family here and to me I was excited to go visit her and hang out with her ...my husband could go to the wedding and I could go to my relative with the little kids. And we could all enjoy for the other 4 and a half days.

I did run in for 10 min to say mazel tov and did bring my little baby with me . Got the nastiest look from my mother and sister in law. Mother in law wouldn't even look at baby her own grandchild. The first thing she said to me wasn't hi or so nice to see you but rather where are the little kids? You found a babysitter? I said sweetly don't worry they're not here.

At a wedding. Just seems like a hyper focus on the wrong thing. Enjoy your grandkids wedding. Breathe a little.

If someone wants a wedding with no kids except immediate family, then all the more so a baby is included in that. Babies aren’t quiet dolls who just sit sleeping in a stroller, they typically make noise, messes, etc.
it would totally make sense to me that it would be obvious they don’t want babies from the first message.
Again, I don’t think it’s nice, but that does seem like disregarding their request.

amother

Pink

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 12:33 am

The way it was done seems unpleasant.
But the flip side is - I spoke to someone yesterday, she was literally in tears. Making her first chasuna and really struggling. She has 12 siblings and her husband has 10. They are both the youngest meaning that there are over 200 first cousins bah, many of whom are married themselves and have their own kids. They sat down and decided to only invite over bar/bas mitzva to the seuda although they made it clear that for the chupa and kabalas panim everyone was invited.

Her mil phoned and very sweetly told her that it was extremely selfish to expect siblings to attend if they can't bring their small kids. It means costs of babysitting etc. Was she supposed to say, I can't afford an extra 200 places? There isn't even space in the hall? That even kiddy portions would be an extra $3000?

So she stuck to her guns, got labelled as the stingy sil. Then at the wedding itself, one of the siblings DID bring the children with. Instead of enjoying the wedding, all the siblings were sour faced because why was this sibling allowed to bring when they had to find a babysitter?

She ended up losing out in all directions. The family are upset with her, she had to pay extra for those kids and she was stressed out the entire wedding.

I could totally see her next time sending texts to remind people not to bring their kids.

OTOH I have a neighbor who did not invite the chosson's siblings to shabbos sheva brachos because why should she have to pay for her son in law's siblings? That to me is totally off the wall.

amother

Seashell

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 12:34 am

tichellady wrote:

It’s not the cousins kids. It’s the cousins! And if you don’t invite relatives then there are ways to do it that are kind and gentle and ways to do it that are not. This isn’t rocket science

Even the cousins are a very large number in my family at this point. BH!

I already mentioned earlier that rudeness is never appropriate. But if leeway needs to be given to anyone, its to the host who is a day away from her simcha where the guest did bring kids but didnt share her plans with her.

I'm not sure this is the situation here though since OP didn't clarify. Maybe she did share her plans and the host was indeed plain rude. Or maybe there was a third party who erroneously informed the host that OP was bringing her kids to the wedding. OP needs to clarify here what exactly happened.

amother

NeonPink

Tue, Aug 29 2023, 12:34 am

amother Pearl wrote:

We recently had a family wedding where we were told they weren’t buying plates/seats for any of the kids. So some cousins didn’t bring kids- either left with a babysitter or the spouse stayed home. Some brought the whole family just for the chuppah. Some brought kids and just sat them on their lap and shared their serving with them.

Leaving the kids with a spouse or babysitter is a good idea. Bringing them and seating them in your lap if they were specifically not invited ? That is Not OK. If I was the baal simcha I would not be happy with that. But perhaps different things are acceptable on different circles ?