Palin's daughter pregnant!

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Tzippora

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 10:54 pm

Apologies, I'm a bit of a political junkie.... with a quick trigger finger

costanza

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 10:56 pm

In the immortal words of Bill Murray in the classic movie Meatballs - "It just doesn't matter"

Did anyone care so much that Cheney's daughter was gay? I don't recall that being made an issue at the time of the election - only after the fact that he was the vice president.

I want to wait to see her on the campaign trail and I especially want to see her debate Biden. Let's judge her on her abilities for the VP job - not on her decisions about childbirth and her daughter's misdeeds.

SuperMama

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:00 pm

Where I come from a 17 yr old could be married too... In America, plenty of 17 yr olds are pregnant out of wedlock - more than are married in my circle so whats the big fuss about?? MAYBE HER MOTHER ISN'T APPROACHABLE SO SHE COULDNT ASK FOR BC LIKE ALL HER FRIENDS HAVE!!!!!!!!!! It's sad, but in todays world the non jews need their kids on birth control and it's irresponsible that the mother didn't have her daughter on it in my opinion. Or why didn't she use protection - she wanted to behave like an adult and now for many reasons she cannot have an abortion so she is having the baby. I guess we can blame parent and child but what good is it?? Lets just move on.. at leas tthe girl is trying to make it right - now she needs support.. What bothers me is why her mother would take a position which would expose her daughters secret to the WORLD. shreklech. Anyways, I do NOT support teen pregnancy in any way (except for married teens), but I'm not sure whaat this has to do with her politics... IN fact!!! it proves her opinion on not educating children about contraceptives (clearly her daughter didnt know how to use them properly) and it shows that she is pro life (as her duaghter is choosing to have the baby)... I don't support Palin for other reasons, but come on, this is just sad. Poor daughter!

Tzippora

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:01 pm

We were too busy worrying about Cheney's abuses of power to focus on his personal life. Also, his daughter was never presented as part of the campaign, while Sarah's family was in many ways.

Also, as I've mentioned, it calls into question her judgment on issues like s*x ed. And we'll get to her abuses of power soon, for which she is currently under investigation and just lawyered up.

But good taste on the movies.... much of Bill Murray is before my time, but Groundhog Day was brilliant!

Tzippora

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:05 pm

Also, for anyone wondering where I get some of my news: http://www.fark.com/politics/

The links on the left are submitted and updated very frequently. The comments section is usually irreverent, offensive, heated, and some of the funniest things I've ever read. But don't say I didn't warn you.

But really - quickest amalgam of political news of almost anywhere.

Fox

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:07 pm

Tzippora wrote:

I have problems with corruption and too much back room dealing- as a Chicagoan, you understand why it can be a real problem. There has been an unprecedented amount of that in the Bush administration, particularly in the Justice Dept. It's not just some sewage company getting the city contract because they've paid off a Daley - it's a wholesale upending of the Constitution.

Well, actually, most Chicagoans are pretty happy with the current level of back-room dealing. Our city services run better than most major urban areas, we have a fabulous park district, and when things go wrong, Mayor Daley calls a press conference and rants and raves at the offenders until he turns red. It's a very paternalistic system, and I'll admit it's very unique to our city. Suffice it to say that Mayor Daley regularly wins reelection with over 80 percent of the vote -- without campaigning. Of course, my Democratic Ward Committeeman stops by every year to make sure we have enough garbage cans, etc., and to remind us of how important we are to Hizzoner.

A digression: many people in Chicago have the custom of "saving" the parking spaces they've cleared of snow by placing old chairs, etc., in them. It's really not a nice habit, and one year Mayor Daley decided he'd had enough. He called a press conference and basically told everyone that it made our city look ratty and we should stop. I don't remember if he told us we hadn't been raised in a barn, but he might have. Well, this was more fatherly interference than a lot of people could bear. There was great debate for a few weeks in the papers, on the radio, etc., but a substantial portion of the citizenry just kept on "saving" parking spots. Mayor Daley made a few more appeals, but he wasn't getting anywhere. Finally, in the course of a routine press conference, he told the city that he was "throwing up his hands" in this matter and that if we were determined to live like savages, he couldn't stop us. He didn't actually threaten to ground us until we cleaned up, but I think it was only because his advisors told him it wasn't constitutional.

Tzippora wrote:

Character and judgement are important - but you're certainly correct about too much scrutiny on the family. My issue here is what it says about her policies re: s*x ed, for example. Not because ZOMG, her daughter's knocked up!!

Does that make sense?

I think there's a difference between public policy and what people's children do.

Those of us who have watched his ascent in Chicago politics are actually eager for Obama to win. It will guarantee a minimum of four years' entertainment as the rest of the country learns that the Chicago definition of "transparency" and "lack of corruption" may differ a little from what they've assumed.

chavamom

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:09 pm

My favorite new item of the day?

Quote:

Rove Calls Biden Blowhard Doofus

. I wish I was making it up.

Quote:

CNN) – If Sen. Joe Biden was hurt that Republican operative Karl Rove called him a “big blowhard doofus” at an event in Minneapolis Monday, he didn’t show it.

On hearing the news, Biden grinned and said “he’s a great American.”

The blog Politicker ME reports that at a Maine delegate breakfast at the Republican National Convention, Rove, the so-called “architect” of the Bush administration, called Biden a “big blowhard doofus.” Biden, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, is notorious in Washington for being talkative at Senate hearings.

Later, in response to a different question, Rove is reported to have asked "Is there press in this room?"

Biden addressed the criticism during a flight on his campaign plane Monday evening. A reporter asked if the senator would now answer to “Senator Doofus.”

“You can call me anything you want,” he said.

You can call Biden whatever you want, but the man's got class.

mimivan

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:13 pm

SuperMama wrote:

McCain knew about the pregnancy when he selected Palin (acc to what I read)
I think the idea was davka to make the daughter a pro-life poster child....(but he didn't think about how this would upset the other side)...

flowerpower

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:14 pm

Why are you all going so nuts! The president is the main not vice. I'm going to steal Obamas dd report card and check it out soon. I'll also see how many spankings she got recently.

mimivan

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:18 pm

flowerpower wrote:

Why are you all going so nuts! The president is the main not vice. I'm going to steal Obamas dd report card and check it out soon. I'll also see how many spankings she got recently.

McCain is the oldest presidential candidate and he has a history of cancer...I think his choice of VP matters quite a bit.

flowerpower

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:21 pm

He can surprise you and live until 100 years with his sanity in full!

Anyone is better then a young inexperienced liar with no future plan ahead. I am working on my passports just in case.

mimivan

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:37 pm

Well, come to Yirushalaim, flowerpower! I'm not optimistic about a McCain victory (although I would prefer it), and am glad I made aliyah five years ago. I hope Moshiach is here before the election...

My main concern for us here in E.Y is that our enemies will see an Obama victory as a victory for them and will become emboldened.

(I am not not making the prejudiced assumption that Obama's Muslim heritage makes him more inclined to turn a blind eye to terror and the security of E.Y....but given Hamas' endorsement of him...it appears that THEY are making that assumption...whether true or not...it is BAD for us....let's face it.)

Mama Bear

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:46 pm

the funniest thing is that mccain ran in the primaries in 1998, so the following purim I walked around with a badge "mccain 1998". I never thought he'd actually win a republican nomination a decade later.

Fox

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 12:06 am

Yeah, I have a hard time getting too worked up about it. On the other hand, is anyone up for a rousing debate about Ben Bernanke and the Fed?

HindaRochel

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 1:24 am

princessleah wrote:

Quote:

For Jews the question should be"What is the Torah position"
and for all else is:
"what program works best to lessen pre-marital s-xual activity?" if that in fact is a goal; it could be "lessen unwanted pregnancies, reduce stds etc. etc. The Torah position may also include, but not necessarily include, the above.

Why should the American government be teaching the Torah position? Why, as Jews, should we be imposing our Halacha on American society?

I did not state that the American government should be teaching the Torah position, I stated that for Jews the question should be "What is the Torah position."
ie, we should not be teaching our children contrary to the Torah.
and, fwiw, we should not be voting on issues in a way which contradicts Torah.

HindaRochel

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 1:26 am

Tzippora wrote:

Palin is trying to get social conservatives - they WOULD care if your 17 year old daughter got knocked up premaritally, and if you did, because it's inconsistent with how you're marketing yourself.

It'd be like finding out that a rav we thought highly of ate a ham sandwich - yes, other people (non religious/ nonJewish people) eat them, but you have marketed yourself as someone who wouldn't, and have been inconsistent with that message.

It is different though; her daughter got pregnant, and she has not had an abortion. This is called "hate the sin, love the sinner" in action.

HindaRochel

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:10 am

princessleah wrote:

By "work" I mean reducing the number of teen pregnancies or teens infected with STD's.

Okay, so now we have a working definition. I think that abstinence only promoters really mean "less relationships before marriage..."
which is a different thing.
So the question would be not "does it reduce abortions/stds" but does it reduce pre-marital s-x."

Reviewing the literature it appears that no program is actually effective in what it does; abstinence only programs are dismissed because while in the short term they seem effective, by the time children reach the age of about 17 both groups are haveing relationships and both groups, while knowing about condoms and birth control, are fairly lax about using it.

What is true is that children are surrounded by s-xually graphic images and now even middle school children are having relationships.

I don't know what the answer is.
When I was a teen, in middle school or highschool, I don't remember which (it was a college preparatory school and went from 7-12 grade) we had health class and we talked a bit about s-x before marriage.

In response to some question or statement by fellow student or teacher I piped up with:

"Who's a virgin anymore". I was for one, and remained one till marriage. But as social awkward as I was, as timid and shy as I was, as unkissed as I was, I knew viginity wasn't "cool".

This study shows the rates of birth/abortion are declinging among teens.

Guttmacher

I don't k now, I really don't. I think that too many teens and young girls are ruining their lives.
A program which just states: don't do it; is bound to be ineffective. A comprehensive program explaining what happens to a girl who gets pregnant, what an abortion looks like (and those who like full disclosure shouldn't be against seeing what abortion looks like) giving information not only on birth control, but the health consequences, may be more effective than either program.

sarahd

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 4:10 am

Tzippora wrote:

It'd be like finding out that a rav we thought highly of ate a ham sandwich - yes, other people (non religious/ nonJewish people) eat them, but you have marketed yourself as someone who wouldn't, and have been inconsistent with that message.

No, it would be like finding out that the rav's son is off the derech and ate a ham sandwich. Would that make the rav a hypocrite for advocating kashrus?

btMOMtoFFBs

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 6:03 am

If I were Bristol's mom I would encourage her to give the baby up for adoption. That is much more honorable. The baby would be raised by responsible parents (hopefully) who are ready emotionally and financially to raise a child.

I would NOT encourage my teen to marry a boy just because he impregnated her. IMHO its not fair to the boy, to Bristol or to the baby.

HindaRochel

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 6:38 am

btMOMtoFFBs wrote:

Depends on the couple, the family relationship between the parents and the adults.
Getting married young is not necesarily dooming the couple. If they maintain a tight relationship to the parents on both sides it could work well.
I would encourage my daughter to keep the child. Many women who have given a child up for adoption have come to feel a great deal of pain at the loss. However, I would support my daughter.

And you don't know if they were already engaged to be married, or planning on marrying anyway.

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